#21 INTERVIEW OF BLACK STUDENTS ENROLLED AT WASHINGTON AND LEE 1. Have you decided upon a college major? Ifyes, what? Yes. economics is my major. 2. (Ifthe answer to do question 1 is no, skip #7.) What is your grade point average (GPA) in your major field? I was majoring at first, I was planning on majoring in chemical engineering, but I decided to do change my major because I'm just really interested in economics and possibly going into banking, so I just changed my focus this year. 3. What type of degree are you working toward at Washington and Lee? BA 4. What is the occupation or profession you want to do enter upon finishing your education? Hopefully go into corporate finance. I'm trying to do get an internship this summer within that area. I'd like to do pursue that, but then if.. I'm trying to do get an internship for that area now so I'll know if I don't like it.. But corporate finance is the area I'm pursuing. 5. Do you plan on working toward an advanced degree at some time after finishing your undergraduate program? As of right now, I probably will, but I won't go immediately for it, cause I want to do get a taste of what it's like to do go out and work and maybe -it's probably gonna happen. I'll probably go for my MBA, but it'll be I think a lot farther down the road. 6. While growing up, did you attend or were you personally active in church? Yes/ No Ifyes, please give the denomination, and the type of church activities in which you participated. Yes. I was very active in church. My whole family was Baptist. So we went every Sunday. sat down in there for the four hour services, and stuff like that. I was extremely active. I was -I think I was a lot more religious as I was growing up, but then. I think once they started giving me more freedom between going to do church and like going with my friends, I started changing a little bit, but I still am pretty religious, but I really honestly have not gone to do church in a while. But I feel guilty about that, that I haven't. I should be going to do an Easter service tomorrow. How would you characterize your church involvement in Lexington? I've only gone to do church here once, and this is my second year here, so that's pretty horrible I think personally. 7. How would you compare your level of participation in extra-curricular activities in high school and at Washington and Lee? Probably right about the same, because in high school I was really active within organizations and with, within sports here, so -I play soccer here, and when I was planning on coming here, at first I was telling myself there's no way I'm going to do get in any organizations because I felt like I was really burnt out, and just really tired of doing all of them. But, now all of a sudden this year I find myself doing the same thing agai~, but I'm enjoying it. I realize that I really do like doing that kind of stuff, so .. I'm pretty active within organizations and sports .. What organizations are you involved in? Well, I just got elected for junior justice of IFC, and then I want to do hopefully become president of IFC my senior year, so hopefully that will work out. I'm in the University athletic committee. And the subcommittee for the 200th year anniversary coming up, and I think something else, I can't remember, and the soccer. Captain of the soccer team. 8. How did you learn about Washington and Lee University? W &L literature W &L admissions counselor Relative Adult friend Peer Other Through one ofmy friends that's going here now. We came at the same time. He came up here for a visit, his name's Sam Chase, I don't know if you know him. And we, he came up here for a visit. We both wanted to do play soccer in college, and at the same time we both wanted to do go to do the same place together. But at the same tome we didn't want it to do be a like a job to do play a sport, and to do go to do school cause we knew school was more important. and after he came back from here he just told me how great it was, and the campus. And so I came up here for a visit about a month later, actually during reading days, my senior year. It was so slow here, too. a lot ofpeople were saying that they couldn't believe I chose this place after being here over reading days, but I just loved the campus and the setting because -The only other place I was thinking about going was Vanderbilt, and the location of it is totally opposite of each other, so I decided to do come here and I've never regretted that decision at all. It's great. 9. To do what extent were you assisted during the admissions process by an alumnus of Washington and Lee? Well, I knew ifl had any questions I could talk.. I don't know if you know Bill Hill? I had called him a few times during my admissions process. So I called him a couple times and he helped me out and he's a really nice guy. He's probably the only guy I talked to do as an alumnus, and I think, yeah he's the only one that helped. But I usually make my decisions on my own, but if I had a couple of questions I'd call him up. And that was fine though, I thought I had enough help. 10. Did you visit the campus before you matriculated as a student? Ifyes, under what circumstances? Visited on your own Participated in the Summer Scholar's Program Visited during a Prospective Student Weekend Other: It was through Angela Allen. She used to do work here. Through the minority department -I don't know what its called, but so she picked me up at the airport when I came here, and we ate at the Olive Garden, and that's where she gave me my interview. I was pretty excited about that. I saw coach Piranian. I stayed with a soccer player and he took me by the fraternity house, so I went there and met a lot of people, so it was great. Ended up being your fraternity? Yup, ended up being my fraternity to do. Yeah, I liked the guys so much when I came here, so ... Phi Kappa Psi Please describe your reactions to do this campus visit. 10a. Was W&L your ... First choice Second choice Third choice Less than third choice It was my first choice. Honestly it was the only school that I applied to do that -I never sent in my application to do Vanderbilt. Which I think now was kind of risky, just in case, but I don't know, I guess I was a little confident, feeling over confident, but.. 1Ob. About how many other colleges did you apply to do? ... No other One Two Three Four Five Six or more Well, I applied to do two others. I applied to do Jacksonville University cause my dad liked the campus a lot and I hadn't even been there. I said' "Oh apply there, it's just a nice area." So I applied there and I was really serious about soccer, so the other place I applied to do, just because of soccer, was University of Rhode Island. And I never went there for a visit for Soccer, cause it was like D 1, and I just had this thing in my head, "I've got to do go Division 1, I want to do play Division one", and decided ..When I sent in my application there, then I went and checked out the school and how the education program was, and it was like, "No, it's just not for me," so it really changed my perspective about that. And I really wish I didn't even send in my application because gives false impressions, but Oh well.. 1Oc. How many other colleges accepted you? None One Two Three Four Five Six Just those other two. 11. What made you decide to do attend Washington and Lee? Relatives wanted you to do come here Teacher advised you Good academic reputation Good social reputation Offered financial assistance Offers special programs you wanted Tuition lower than similar colleges High school guidance school counselor advised you Private college counselor advised you Wanted to do live near home Friend suggested attending Recruited by college representative Recruited by athletic department Graduates go to do top graduate schools Graduates get good jobs Religious affiliation or orientation Size of college Not accepted anywhere else Rankings in national magazines I guess Sam helped me decide that. My high school coach really told me the school was a really good school, too. And knowing coming here the school had a good reputation, the school had a great reputation. Academically? Academically, I really liked it a lot. I was kind of apprehensive just about the minority -the number of minorities here, but.. That's when Bill Hill came in, actually, and helped me about that and just told me that the, I mean he really said that it was fine, cause I was just worried about, I mean the name of the school was what made me apprehensive, first of all, and I asked him and he was just like "Oh, the school's great." and It's hard -Ill feelings towards blacks anyway, I would fine that anywhere, so I thought about that. It didn't matter where I went, I might feel that occasionally, so that was my only other thing, and then. I guess rankings, really rankings came after I had already decided, I realized how high Washington and Lee was ranked. And so that didn't really influence me that much, but knowing that I would come out of here with a degree from Washington and Lee really influenced me a lot. Were there other factors you considered in making the decision? I guess fraternity organization. I knew I wanted to do join a fraternity ifl went to do a school where it was kind of big and prominent. So here I knew it was 80%, 90% fraternities. And so I knew that was another big factor, cause there WSA a big fraternity organization and it was pretty active. And I guess that was probably about it. I was kind of worried about not living close to do home. But I mean it's only 8 hours away and I've never been worried about leaving home, never really been homesick. So that kinda, that -I still have her now too, same girlfriend, but that's been kinda hard, but it's only two more years, I figure. Financial assistance also was a big thing, because my parents couldn't afford to do send me to do a level of school that I wanted to do go to do, That I feel that I should be going to do, so that also really influenced me. Because I didn't want to do go to do an in state school that was, just didn't have the same caliber of academics, so So you got a good financial package .. Yeah, everything's covered, so I was pretty excited about that. 12. Once you decided to do enroll at W &L, what was the reaction offriends and relatives? They were pretty happy for me. I'm the first one in my family to do go to do college, so they were really excited about that. And my friends were happy too, cause they knew I would be playing soccer, and .. Everyone was happy. Everyone was proud ofme, I guess. There were no negative images, or anything like that. And, I don't know. I guess the only thing, after I did decide about coming her, and like I wanted to do change my mind was because ofmy girlfriend, but that was really it. That was a big factor too, but I still decided to do consider this, so .. Were there negative images about W&L that made you think seriously about not coming? 13. Once you were enrolled, did you find the University to do be as you had expected? I guess in a way, the thing that really surprised me-well I guess freshman year especially, it was weird how -I still think it's weird how, like people, like the fraternities now are I think are kind of bad for the school in a way. I think how it just kind of segregates people, just within the fraternities, and certain people don't talk to do each other. And I think that's horrible, actually. I mean I'm in a fraternity, but I try to do talk to do everyone, but there are -as far as that, I think that's a bad part ofthe school. It's just like there are -just like the separation, because like every time we went to do the D Hall and everything, you have the same sections -groups of fraternities sitting together, and the pledges of this fraternity .. you have all the black students all sit together. When you look in there you can say, oh that's the SAE house right there .. and there would be no interaction between other groups of people. I still think . .It's kind of bad now, I think, but .. Did that change with Winter Rush, with kids having another term to do get to do know each other? Oh, yeah. It helped a lot. Cause you got to do know people, you got to do know them a lot. Cause that way, too, I think there's less people regretting which houses they went to do. a lot ofpeople went to do houses .. I know I have one kid in my pledge class who honestly just doesn't fit in with us, and I think if he would have had a little bit more time he could have realized that. And I feel bad for him, because now he's trying to do transfer to do other places. He already tried one place and he didn't get accepted. Other schools? Other schools. And I think a lot of it has to do do with the fraternity that he's in .. Yeah, I think winter rush really helped a lot, as far as that goes. Anything else that was different about the school from what you had imagined.. Not, It's really hard, I guess. I knew it was going to do be hard, but it's even more hard than I thought. Freshman year, I'm prepared for it now, but that's just about it, really. This school's really, now it's just like where I came from in high school. The same type of atmosphere and everything. Really nothing different for me. Nothing surprising, I guess. If the school differed from the way it seemed when you first heard about it or visited the campus, please describe how it differed. 14. Please describe what you consider to do be your greatest challenge at Washington and Lee. How have you dealt with it? Whoa, Wow I don't even know what my greatest challenge really is. I guess my greatest challenge is just to do excel in everything I'm doing, because I want to do -I guess I'm really competitive. I think so. So, of course it's just to do be the best at whatever I'm doing, and Guess that's one reason why I stopped engineering also, because I realized that I'm not -I wasn't that good at it, and I couldn't accept that. And as I realized that, I started getting less interested in it and wasn't applying myself to do it as much, and that really made me swerve my course. So I guess my greatest challenge is just to do -like when I leave this school I want to do know I had fun, but at the same time I don't want to do have any regrets about things I did, or like I won't come out ofhere with a 4.0, but I just want to do come out of here knowing that I did try pretty hard, and coming out with a respectable GP A. And as far as organizations, that I did -I experienced the complete W &L life. So I guess my greatest challenge is that I experience everything. I don't -I think I've dealt with it OK so far and I don't know. Maybe that's not the right answer. There isn't a right answer. The right answer is whatever comes up for you. So ifyou think it's the right answer for you... I guess so, maybe I'll come back to do that a little bit later as we keep on talking. Sure. 15. How has your academic performance at Washington and Lee compared with your performance in high school? Horribly. I have to do laugh about it, because there's nothing I can do. I came out with a 3.9 in high school, and I used to do hate getting Bs. and now I love getting a C, almost It's almost that much of a difference. I mean, maybe things will start changing as I keep on getting more and more comfortable with school here, with the course -the level of the work. So my academic performance is a lot, it's poorer than high school. My parents -at first when they saw my grades my first term freshman year. I mean I had soccer and pledge ship going on at the same time, so that presented a problem. So my parents weren't too happy at first, but then I think they understand now that it is pretty hard to do do well here. I haven't given up, though, but I'm not doing as well as I'd like to do, at all. Do they know Judge Hill? My mom met him, and she talked to do him when we had the-you know when they have in each city the people that got accepted, I forgot what that was called. He was there and she remembers him. Ms. Kozak was actually there for that too, and she was warning our parents that "Don't be surprised if your kids come home with less grades that what they get at high school." I was thinking like "No, that won't happen to do me." But, it's happening .. 16. What academic resources have you used at Washington and Lee? Undergraduate library Science library · Computer facilities. Writing Center. Tutors in the disciplines. Study groups. Public lectures on academic subjects. Language lab. Visiting professors in their offices. Study skills courses I haven't used the writing center because I was only in English one term and that was first semester freshman year. I use the Ley burn Library all the time. For studying and I like to do read a lot ofthe magazines in there. And the science library, I'm in there every day. I'm always on e­mail or Net-scape, or something like that, so I use a lot of the computer facilities. Never gone to do a tutor in any course in Math. I should have gone to do a tutor, I think now that I look back in like Calculus. I should have gone in Calculus 101. And I could probably have used a tutor there. I occasionally do study groups, but I found out that I do better studying on my own. Because there's always distractions and it's hard to do stay on top of what you're trying to do study. And like I actually tried to do help a girl study in Chemistry for one test, and all her questions were like things that I already knew, and ends up being one o'clock in the morning and I haven't looked at what I didn't know, and of course it hurt my grade on that test. So I, with study group, I try to do veer away from them a lot. I visit professors a lot, well not a lot, whenever I feel like I'm having trouble with something I will go ask questions, or talk to do them, but I stay on just a nice social level with professors outside of class, but I don't go. I see a lot ofpeople that go thee extra step, I think, and really get to do know the professors, but I really don't do that. I think because I'm always -I think I'm not the type of person to do try to do -some people, some of my friends try to do do it just cause they think it's going to do help them get a good grade in class, which it might, it might do that, but I don't like doing that. I haven't -I didn't take any study skills courses at all -I guess the speed reading or something like that. I don't know. Maybe I should take one in how to do study better probably. I can't think of any other resources besides the ones listed here. Do you have suggestions for the development ofthese or other facilities? No, not that I can .. no not really. It seems that everything's so .. it's really there if you need to do use any of these things, so I don't -I mean, when I was in the language lab, that's always being -I just remember when I was in French last year, I always hated how they closed and everything else was open, but that -when you needed to do be in that lab it would be closed. But, that's about it. I don't really have any complaints about that stuff. 17. What factors contribute or contributed to do your selection of a major course of study? Promise ofearning a handsome salary after graduation, Interest in the particular academic discipline, College friends recommended this major, Adult relative recommendation etc. Other WE already talked about that a little bit. Well I guess for economics, the idea that I would have a lot of versatility in the what area that I would want to do go into after college. I say I want to do do investment banking now, but I could just possibly just go into a finance division of a company, or something like that. And I guess the salary also, but the more I think about it now, it's really, that's not as big a deal with me as when I was in high school and saying "Oh, I'm gonna come out and be a millionaire," But that's not really -that's not as important to do me any more. a lot of friends recommended to do me -not really recommended, but they just said that they thought it was a good major to do have, and coming out of this school, coming out of the C School is definitely the best thing to do have coming out of Washington and Lee, personally. In what way? Every time I think about this school I think about it as a business school. I don't know why. Maybe it's just my own impression, but like -with the engineering department, it's a really tough engineering department, but I don't see it as having -like I really do look at it as what the reputation is of the school and of the department, and I don't see that as a big plus coming out of here with an engineering degree. As like -I'm from Atlanta, and if I'd gone to do Georgia Tech, or something like that. I do feel like a lot of the companies do look at where you're coming from. If it was between me having an engineering degree from here and someone from Georgia Tech, with an engineering degree. I think they would choose the one from Georgia Tech, I don't know. That's just my opinion. My parents actually, I think, my mom wasn't happy with me at all, switching my major. She actually shocked me. She said,"I thought better of you." and I was just like "What?" I don't know. That really surprised me when she said that. I was like "You should be glad I'm not dropping out of school, not just because I'm switching my major." And my dad's ­he really didn't mind. He wasjust,"Oh, well, you'll do well in whatever you choose to do do." He's got a lot of faith in me, so he's supporting me fine. My mom's supporting me, she just thinks I should be an engineer cause I'm gonna go off and do something. She just had high expectations for me. Which is fine, but I think I let her down in her mind. You also said your interest shifted, cause you weren't doing very well.. Yeah, at the same time that I wasn't doing very well, I was also taking an economics course, and I liked that class a lit, but the thing was that I had to do put that off on the back burner, my Economics 101 class, because I was concentrating on my engineering and chemistry class, and I ended up getting a C in economics class. And I knew I could have done a lot better if I had studied a lot more. And I was really interested in it, but I didn't have time to do really pay attention in it. I do get to do a point where I do want to do take a break from studying. I could have probably studied a lot harder for it, but I still like to do relax and do other things, so . So, now that I've started focussing on that instead of chemistry and engineering .. I dropped the engineering course, at the beginning of this term, so now I'm not taking that and I think I should hopefully come out with an a in the economics course, and then, I don't know in chemistry yet. And, knowing about money, I've always been interested in investing money, and I'd like to do know where it's going, and I never really understood that till now, so .. 18. Have you changed majors since you have been enrolled at Washington and Lee? Ifyes, please describe that change. Have we answered that satisfactorily? Yes. 19. Ifyou saw a person or group of persons lying, stealing or cheating would you report it as an honor violation? Please elaborate. See, that's ...honestly, for me personally I think it would have to do .. I think I in myselfrate a level of degree of what they did to do cheat, because I don't -on my honor, or whatever, I do not cheat at all, but I know, think it's .. with a honor code like this -I know it's being abused by someone. I just think so, You mean you assume it is, or you know it is? I assume it is, I don't know, I don't know anyone that does cheat that I've seen or not. But if I did see someone cheat, I think that if it was like a take home test or something like that and I saw the person reading through the book, I think I would anonymously say something to do them, but as far as someone using a sentence from a book or something like that. I really honestly don't think I would say anything. I would say something to do them. Ifthey were my friend I would be like "Well, you should probably think about what you're doing, maybe quote that or something. I have actually done that before and people -and the person was like "Oh, you think I should." and I was like, "Yeah, I think you should." As far as stealing. IfI saw them stealing anything, I would turn them in for that. And the lying, I guess lying, as far as lying to do anyone? You say. Um, lying to do a professor, I think that's, I guess, hmmm, If they were lying about something they had done as far as ... I don't know. I can't think of .. lying between students. I wouldn't say anything. Ifthat counts as part of the getting kicked out, or something like that. But lying to do a professor, I think, or administration or something like that. I think I would probably say something that -if it was something of importance. Not if it was something small. It depends. See, I think there should be some kind of degree of like what you do, because like last year I know someone got kicked out for plagiarism and it was her senior year spring term and she was on the verge of graduating. She shouldn't have done it in the first place, but that's just unbelievable that now she had to do go back to do another school for at least two more years, I think. I don't know. The cheating .. I guess I already said. I don't know about the lying. So what's holding you back? Is it the single sanction thing? Like, where it's whatever, where you do any little thing and you're out. Yeah, I really think it's -it should be changed, but how do you write up laws for it, that covers everything. So, I guess, for that factor it's just good to do leave it the way it is, because then that just keeps anyone from doing anything to do even try to do go through the loopholes or anything, but I .. yeah, just the single sanction thins. That's pretty harsh I think. I personally will never do any of the stuff, but actually I don't want to do ever be in a position where I do see someone doing this, because I think that puts a lot ofpressure on the person who does see someone cheat. Because if its a friend.. you don't want to do go and .. You would want em to do still be here, but at the same time it's pressure because you have agreed to do the honor code, and part of the honor code is saying that if you do see someone cheat you will report em. And I never want to do be put in that position, because I say right now that I would turn them in, but I don't know what I would do if that really did happen. I don't know. Cause I also -doesn't that make you eligible to do be kicked out also if you did know? that someone cheated? I thought that was part of it. That could be interpreted as lying. See, yeah, I guess. Wow, see I don't, wow. I don't know then. Wow. Ifthat's interpreted as lying then that's hard. I don't know. that could totally change someone's future. That's a lot. I don't know. I don't know. That's why, as par as plagiarism thing goes. I guess it's a big deal if you have a huge chunk of someone's[]. In a way it seems so minimal to do me. It is stealing, It's stealing someone else's work and everything, but maybe there's -there should be some other kind of punishment, maybe like a suspension or something. But, wow, after hearing what happened to do that girl last year, that was unbelievable. And it doesn't scare me because I think it would happen to do me, but it just scares me just because, basically ... it definitely dampens their future for a while. So I don't know. Are you saying that you have reservations about the honor system in general? No, see I can't even explain how I feel, cause I don't. Not about the honor system in general, cause I think it's great to do have. I think it's a great thing .. That actually was really appealing to do me when I was looking at the school, because when I came here I actually left I think it was my wallet in the D Hall, and I was just like "Oh., no." And then I remembered this school has an honor system. I was like "Let's see if it really works." and I came back and it was sitting right there. And I was like "Wow." That really hit me pretty hard. When I went back that was one of the first stories I told people .. so that was another big thing. No, I like the honor system a lot, but I don't know, I just don't like the pun . .I guess the final punishment for certain things that can happen. Because, like -this is another reason I just remembered. There is this, I remember hearing about this one kid who possibly sexually harassed a girl here, last year, and maybe it was just all a rumor, I don't know, but I heard that his punishment, I thought that was definitely going to do be within the honor system and he should be kicked out. And I was totally for that he should be gone. Ifthey proved it. Ifthey could prove it, yeah. But I heard that the possible thing was that he would just be suspended for a month or a semester, and that's totally baffled me how something like that you could be just suspended and then putting in a sentence from someone else could get you kicked out of school. Was it the understanding ofthe students that that was a guilty verdict and that was the punishment, or that that was not a guilty verdict? That's a good question. See, I don't know, that's true. That's one ofthe things about how the system works that there has to do be so much confidentiality about the proceedings so most ofwhat we try to do understand, we can't have all the information.. That's a good point. I'm not trying to do correct you, I'm just interested because that story comes up a lot, and I bet we don't have all the information. Yeah, that's got to do be .. yeah, I agree with you, cause I obviously don't know the whole story either, but just what I've heard. 20. Do you find Washington and Lee professors easy or difficult to do approach? Please describe in what way they are easy or difficult. I think they're very easy to do approach. I've had no problem talking to do any of my professors. Sometimes I feel that there are some professors who just like they will look at you differently if you're not doing well in the class. I've actually felt that from them in the chemistry area. I feel like if you, like I'm scared for my chemistry professors to do know that I'm not going to do major in chemistry any more. Cause I think that would stick in the back of their heads. You think they might grade you different .. Yeah I think so, cause they're human. That will, I think play on their judgement. So, I don't know. But I think they're really easy to do approach, all of them, from what I've heard from other people, everyone else has really thought they were easy to do approach. Have you been able to do establish close working relationships with a member or with members ofthe W &L faculty? No, not yet. Like I said earlier I haven't really attempted on my side to do try to do get a close working relationship, I mean not even with my advisor, which I think is kinda bad, but it's my ­It's professor Desjardin in the chemistry department. He knows that I am switching my majors now, and he knows that I'm going to do be switching advisors, so -but I really like him a lot, but I just haven't really tried to do establish a close working relationship there. 21. What has been your experience at W &L with regard to social life? Every social aspect runs through fraternities right now, I think. Another committee I'm on is the University Commons committee, which is to build the Student Union, and I think the school really needs that, just to give another outlet as far as activities and things. All in all, it's fun but I'm pretty sure it's everywhere, but it's kind of monotonous to me, the same scene, because actually, like last night, I went to someone's house who was having a party or something. It was just the same thing as any where else on this campus, just a gathering of people. I'm almost positive it's like that across the country, because it's just -I don't know, everything is focussed around alcohol. I mean, I do drink occasionally, but I'm not a big-time, every weekend I'm gonna drink. Like, during FD I'll drink a little bit, or something like that. That's probably why I'm not really the most social person, but I am really social. How important to you is alcohol at a social event or social engagement? I could do without it, just because, that's the thing, I really feel a lot of people are afraid to talk and express their feelings unless they're drunk. Like, you'll see a guy who really likes a girls, or something, and he's scared to talk to her until he has five beers. That's horrible! I've never had that problem. That's why I think I can do without it. That's funny because we had a chapter meeting one night, everyone was like, oh yeah, are we going to have a party tonight? And everyone in the house knows that I don't drink a lot, and they just like to joke about it sometimes with me. They said Are you gonna drink?, and I said I can have a good time without drinking, and everyone was just quiet. They all looked at me. I don't go around and spoil parties either. I have a great time with everyone, but I don't think alcohol is definitely important at all. How important to you are drugs at a social event? Drugs are definitely prevalent in the school, but I've never tried one drug. I tried to smoke a cigarette once, just a tobacco cigarette, to see what it was like. Actually I tried it twice, but just a puff, not the whole cigarette. A lot of that just comes from plain athletics team, which I think is the big factor. I don't think I would do drugs anyway, because I had one really close friend who, in high school, really laid on the marijuana, and it just killed him. He was a great soccer player and we were really close, and at first he tried drugs and now he still uses them. He was really smart in high school, he's going to college in Charleston now, his parents knew about his drug problem and they couldn't control him. They asked me to try to help him. I've tried to help him, but I couldn't be with him 24 hours a day. So now it's really affecting him in school there, and he has just changed a lot. That actually scared me off, too, because it's like a first-hand experience of seeing what it can do to you. It really changed him a lot. He was a really good soccer player and he got kicked off our team because of drugs. That hurt us too, because he was an important player on the team, too. Tell me what you mean when you say they are definitely prevalent on campus. I've seen them a lot, not on the actual campus, but in fraternities and everything. I'm convinced even the cops know it, but if they busted people everyone would be in jail and no one would be coming to school. There's a lot of people that do, more than anything, marijuana. And then I guess there are some people who get caught with cocaine. But that's kept low key, that part. But I know I've heard of some people who have done that stuff, and that surprised me. So you don't know that first hand from seeing people. No, I've never seen anyone do -not here, I think I have seen someone do cocaine once when I was at a high school party, and that's just ­ Not heroin? Never, never seen it in person. More than anything it's marijuana. Do you see marijuana a lot, do you see people smoking it? Yeah, I've seen people, in high school and here, I've seen it a lot. So it's pretty open at social gatherings, or just in daily... ? Not at social gathering. It's like there will be a party and they set off somewhere, like the back, like a hidden little drug session or something. They try to coerce other people into -they've tried to get me to try that stuff too, but I never have. There is some kind of line, but I just think that it circulates through the kids on campus. IfI did want to do some kind of drug, I think I could get it. It's available, especially the marijuana. I'm not saying there's heroin and cocaine a lot. IfI really wanted some marijuana, I could easily go get it right now. 22. What experiences, ifany, have you had with Greek organizations on campus? How would you evaluate or describe any experiences you may have had? Well, since I'm in the Pi Kappa Phi fraternity, I've experienced everything we've had and it's been a lot of fun. Last year I didn't go to FD because I was really close to my girlfriend and she couldn't come up, so I decided not to go. But this year she came up for it and I had a great time. We had some bands, we had a band in the afternoon on Saturday, which was a blast. I just liked sitting out there, the weather was perfect, so it was a great time. Overall, it's really a lot of fun to hang out with the guys that I decided to be with. Like the closest guys that I would be with for 4 years. Especially my pledge class. They are really close, 15 best friends. We really get along great, except for the one kid that wants to transfer, which really stinks. But I would say overall it's really great. I think also that the other minorities, like there are a few that always ask me questions about how it is, and I look at them and I want to tell them, "Why don't you just try it," because they don't know. I just feel they are not experiencing the whole W &L life. About 80% or 90% of the people are in fraternities, and that obviously means a lot about what goes on around here, it evolves around that. I just think they're missing out. That's another thing, I like to be able to have an opinion about something because I've gone through it myself, with first­ hand knowledge. So I'm glad I got into a fraternity. During the weekdays there really isn't a lot of partying, just a lot of hanging out with the guys in the fraternity, and I like that a lot more than -like right now, everyone at the house is watching the final four and stuff, and I love watching sports on TV. That was one of the reasons why I wanted to join a fraternity, was to hang out with a group of guys that I liked and watch all the sporting events, not really because of the drinking think or because all the girls go to this house, or anything like that. I laugh about it, but sadly I think there are some people who will go to a certain house because certain girls will go there, or you'll be viewed differently. As far as the social scene, it does get monotonous, that is true, but that's maybe two times out of the week. The other five days is just hanging out. And the thing about freshmen being divided up into groups, which is apparently something you 'd like to make a change about ... Yeah, that's why I'm in IFC and other things. It's because I want to intermingle with other people on the campus and because there are people who do just go right back to the house right after class and never come out. I'm sure there are people who have never heard of me, too, but I'm at least attempting to get to know a lot of people on campus. So, relevant to that, have you felt welcomed at the other fraternities. Yes, definitely. I think I at least know 3 or 4 or 5 people from every house, so I can just go in. They're my friends too. One of my really closest friends -we haven't gotten to see each other that much because of fraternities -is an SAE, 'cause we lived right down the hall from each other in freshman year. We got really close. When I do go over there, we have a blast talking. I don't really go over to other houses, tho, on a normal weekday because, maybe, it's starting to affect me, too, just going back to my house and not really -the only time I really will go to those other houses is during a party, and then I go see other people. I think that's actually bad that I do that, I guess maybe I do that because everyone else does that. What I'm realizing right now as I'm sitting here with you, is that is not good at all. It's not that I don't feel welcome. I've heard comments about weird things that happened. There's one house that -Phi Delta Theta ­one of the guys on the soccer team -this was freshman year during pre-season -and they were trying to rush us during pre-season and they were really nice to us, and someone told me that this year one of the PhiDelt players was talking to a person in the Pi Phi house that I'm really close with, and they were talking about who they were going to go for, and he goes, "what about P. Will you go for him?" and he's like, "I'd love to have him, but there are these guys in the house who just don't want a black person in the house." So I was like, oh, there are things you've got to accept. I could sense that kind of stuff. I've learned to sense those types of feelings, but to really hear just solidified my opinion that that goes on. I'm still not scared to walk in there because I have those few guys that do like me as a friend. I just don't let it bother me. 23. Evaluate your experiences with regards to athletic teams/athletic facilities/and physical education classes. I haven't taken any phys ed classes, and I'm always using the weight room or the pavilion 'cause I'm always setting up the team to play for indoor soccer, or something like that. I think my coach depends on me a lot to do a lot for the team, so I'm always setting up things, which I don't mind at all. I just play soccer here. And the track team has asked me to come a lot. This year I actually went to a meeting, and I decided not to run, just because I wanted to have time for myself. I just didn't want to run. I feel like I could really contribute to the track team, and I don't want them to think that I'm just trying to be some cocky person, and not trying to help them. But I just wanted to have time to do other things. I could never see my girlfriend during my whole soccer season, and ifl join another sport, I'd only see her during breaks. She's really important to me, and sports aren't going to last my whole life. That's the way I look at that. But I've had a blast with soccer. I can't wait til next year, as far as that's concerned. Luckily, I've been pretty successful with it, too. That helps out a lot. Re: the facilities -the only thing, the pavilion, it's just a small thing, but the carpet there is horrible, just from all the parties, and I wish we had the attention the tennis team had, but I guess they did earn that by winning the national championship. That's a goal, right there, a big challenge for me, as far as on the athletic side, is to help make a name for the soccer program here, because I really don't think it has a lot of respect. Not like lacrosse. Viewed from other school and even within this school. I don't think it does. It's unbelievable that the tennis team got a $14 million facility. It's just little things. There are things I'd like to see improved. Also this school could support the athletics a lot more -the student body and with equipment and school funding. Look at Williams College. They're just as good academically as us, and they support sports a lot more than I think our school does, and I wish that could be changed. I get the feeling this school has a lot of money that they could use. But I don't know. Academics are more important, but at the same time I think they could put a little more into the athletics program. And then, as far as the student body, we could use a lot more support. I went to the biggest lacrosse game of the year, and I'm sure everyone knows a lot of the people out there playing on the field. That's why I went out there. I don't know a thing about lacrosse. 24. How would you characterize your opportunities for "dating" while enrolled at Washington and Lee? I think there's a few black kids here, but I don't know. I guess I could have a lot of opportunities to date a lot of girls here, but I just don't. I'm just a faithful person, I guess, so I don't really look for that. But just looking at my other friends, there's a lot of opportunities for it, and not only just from here but also all the other surrounding schools, also. 25. Have you ever considered transferring from Washington and Lee to another college/ university? Yes, I definitely have. For one reason, because of my girlfriend, and the other reason because all of my high school friends, my best friend goes to Georgia Tech and if I'd had my wish I would have gone to school with him. That's always hanging over my head. I wish I would have done that. Honestly, I know I'll never transfer from here for two main reasons. One is that I feel like I've really tied myself into the school. I feel that if I left, especially from the soccer, I would be letting a lot of people down and there's no way I could do that. And the other reason would be because if I did go to another school, my parents couldn't really afford for me to go to another school. So that's why I will not transfer. It's just like there's a constant -like one day you'll be so happy, and one day you might be down and say, "Oh, I want to transfer." You can say it and not even mean it. It was a lot more frustrating year than this year. This year I haven't really thought about it at all, not that seriously at least. My freshman year I wanted to transfer because of what I said about in the D-Hall and everything. I just didn't like the atmosphere. That I didn't expect when I first came here. I forgot about that. That was one of those things. I'm not that social, but the alcohol thing -every time you ask someone if they had a good time, "Oh yeah, I'm so wasted." It was never because of the academics, even tho it was hard that's never been a reason to leave. I like challenges, that's one thing I do love about this school. It's not easy at all to do well, so I really like that a lot. I'm pretty competitive too. So I have thought of transferring, but I never will regret that I stayed here. I'm having a blast. It's just an occasion thought. It's missing people, more than anything. Why/why not? Ifyes, what factor(s) influenced you to stay? 26. Have you had a paidjob on campus (including work-study)? I don't have work-study but I have done fund-raising calling for about a month and a half, and it was OK. It was pretty easy, just sit there and call people. It worked out pretty well. We were paid for it, but I think I would have done it anyway, cause I was initially just volunteering for it and didn't realize you got paid for it. Ifso, has this influenced your level ofsatisfaction at W &L? I guess. I never really thought of that as influencing me. I guess it did to the point that I needed to make some money and in this town all the jobs are really locked up. I think someone has to die before you can get a job here. I know the school would hire me to do something if I really ­because I did consider doing work-study and I could have talked to Kim Ruscio. I guess I'm happier knowing that I could get a job here ifl really did need it. 27. Would you be willing to recruit other students for Washington and Lee either as a student yourselfor as part ofan alumni program? Please elaborate. Definitely, I would. I do that all the time, especially through soccer. Sam Chase and I live together and we have a player staying with us every other week. I didn't mind it at all because people are missing out if they don't go here. Overall, I have few complaints, they're so small compared to the overall W &L experience here. I even tried to recruit my girlfriend. She just didn't get accepted. I was in the process oftrying to get one of my really good friends to come here, because he went to UGa. He's a freshman at UGa. He missed playing soccer and he wants to major in business. He called me and I told him I thought W&L was the place he should go, and he almost came here. But his parents won't let him transfer. That upset me a lot. So I would do it in a heartbeat. I probably will sign up to the alumni program, so people can call me up all they want. I'll tell them the truth about everything they want to know. Like how I called Bill Hill, I've actually had a couple prospective black soccer players and students call me up and ask me questions, and I've told them the truth about this school, and I say that it's not bad at all. You should come and you're missing out ifyou don't. Now we ask some background information: 28. In what geographical location did you grow up: Country: State: born in Amityville, NY and moved to Chandler, AZ when I was 5, lived there and in Scottsdale, then when I was 13, moved to Georgia and lived there til I came here. I'm actually glad that I did that moving, because I really did meet a different type of people and it helped broaden my acceptance of people. Now I live in Marietta, GA. In what type ofarea or community did you spend most ofyour growing up years? Urban Suburban X Rural 29. Describe the type ofhigh school you attended. Urban Suburban X Rural Predominantly Black White X Mixed 30. Please give the kin relationship(s) between you and family members in your home when you were growing up. I was with my father most of the time. I haven't seen my mother since I was four years old. I've talked to her on the phone just recently -a couple of years ago. But I'm not ready to meet her yet. Probably will wait until a little bit later for that. So that cuts off a whole side ofmy actual family. [I have a] stepmother. My stepmother changed a few times, too. I wouldn't recommend my growing up to anyone else, but I think I've handled it pretty well. My dad's even said that he's really proud of the way I've handled it. But it wasn't too fun at the time. I had times where I had a step-brother and step-sister, and there were other times where I was the only kid. It was interesting experience. It's weird looking back on it. So consistently throughout it all, it was you and your dad? Yeah, definitely. We're real close. I think he was 19 when I was born. So really almost like brothers instead father and son. 31. What was the highest level ofeducation achieved by your parents, guardians, or others with whom you lived when you were growing up? My dad would have gone to college, but what caused him not to was me, I think. He felt like he had to immediately go into working. I know he graduated from high school and I think he started to go to college in New York. He must have been in his first year of college, and withdrew and started working. He's been pretty lucky with jobs. He got a job pretty fast and he's been in insurance, underwriter kind of stuff. What are the occupations or professions ofyour parents or guardians? He is just now trying to start his own business, as a subsidiary of another company, and so he's doing really well. It's just starting to pick up for him. I'm really happy for' him. It seems that he's been through a lot of bad things, and it's about time for things to turn around for him. It's funny because he's asked me to like help him out whenever I get out of college. But he sees that my ways are kind of going off from his and I think it kinda hurts sometimes. 32. As compared to other W &L students, how would you characterize your overall social class position (based on parents' education and family income)? I'd say lower. Probably at the bottom at this school. But it doesn't affect my experience at all. It doesn't bother me whatsoever. I know who I am and I know where I'm going, and it doesn't bother me at all. I can't help what my parents did in the past. That's what they did, and it doesn't affect me at all. A lot of these people are really, really rich, but it must be nice but I'm not the envious type at all. I just say to myself that one day I'll be like that maybe, so ... How do you think this has affected your experience? 33. In general how do you think about yourselffirst at Washington and Lee --as a member of a particular racial/ethnic/national/gender group, or as a student? That's a good question. Wow. Actually, I think of myself as a student first, then I guess that I am black. I guess I consider myself as a student, just because I really try to overlook all the color barriers. Maybe it's because I grew up in a predominantly white area anyway, that's why I do that. I consider myself more as a student, I guess because I am a student here, that's why. A student and an athlete. Please explain. 34. How homogeneous do you believe black students are on this campus? In answering please consider racial identification, political perspective, and/or social class position. I guess we all have in common social class position. This is my impression. I think a lot of us have come from the same background, maybe not family-wise but maybe parents' education, or something like that. Some may be in the same position I am, so I think a lot of us are homogeneous. Political perspective, I guess most minorities are Democrats, but I don't know if I even consider myself a Democrat. Maybe it's just because I don't want to accept it because I am a minority, but I do try to listen to what other people have to say. When I voted I really thought about if I wanted Gore, yeah, wow, Dole, yeah, what am I saying! As far as political perspective, I really don't know. Racial identification, I'd say we're all homogeneous on that. Sometimes I feel like there's tensions between the blacks here. For me, I feel that some people just don't like me because of the things I'm doing at the school. I've gotten that feeling a lot. For joining a fraternity, for hanging out with-this is just the way I feel, just because I've grown up my whole life in a predominantly white neighborhood. I've had it, "Oh, he thinks he's white" or "He's just getting in with the rest of the people," and things like that. So I get the same thing here. But now that I'm getting to know other blacks a lot more, I think their opinions are changing about me. It's still going to take a lot more time, because like last year I really didn't meet all the blacks much because I didn't -I mean I'm in MSA now and I didn't join last year because, just because I didn't, I wasn't active last year. Now I know everyone else there, I guess, I don't know ifl give them the right to be thinking that, but just because I'll be sitting at the table with my pledge class and they're off sitting over there. Do you see what I'm saying? So you 're saying there are some tensions within the black community about whether someone is being loyal to the black community or not? I think so, yeah. One of my friends at UGa told me he has the same problem between people. 35. How similar or different do you believe blacks and whites are on this campus? Consider the same categories that are mentioned in number 34 above and add any other factors that you deem important. We're all kids or teenagers, now we're supposed to be grown up to be an adult. Social status is really the only difference I see. I don't know why I feel that, but that's the only reason I think that the blacks are different than the whites here. It's just because we think differently because of social status. I'm not saying every white person here is rich, because I know there's a lot who aren't financially well off, but the majority of them -there are certain people who won't talk to others because they think they so high up there. Overall, I think we are more similar than different. 36. Do you believe the size ofthe black student enrollment at Washington and Lee is adequate or inadequate? Well, it depends on how you look at it. It's inadequate if you have a certain limit of blacks you want at the school. For that it's inadequate because it's way out of proportion. Personally, I can get on with anyone, so I don't care who I'm hanging out with. It can be a bunch of Iranians at the whole school, that'd be fine. It's not fine, but it doesn't bother me that much. It still is inadequate for the feeling that a lot of minorities do feel that they need other people from their race to bond with. So for that fact it is inadequate. There aren't enough to actually do that, to go back to your roots. I feel like that too, sometimes. But what's really hurting my opinion on this question, is because of how I've grown up my whole life. I don't think I'm the best person for this question at all. Your personal experience, you 're saying, is influenced by the fact that you've always been in a similar situation. Exactly, so there's nothing wrong with it to me. You know what's funny is that I'm trying to get into an internship program Inroads, a minority internship program, and I went to Richmond for a weekend festival type thing, where we learned about interviewing. I'm really applying for Inroads Atlanta, but I went to the Inroads Richmond, since I'm up here. All the people up there were from the Virginia area, and I was the only one from our school. There is only one other person from here who is in this Inroads program right now. But when we stood up and said what school we were from, I had comments. I was talking to a few guys and they were asking me how I dealt with going to a predominantly white school. I just told them where I grew up and said it doesn't really phase me. I could do fine going to an all-black school. I did consider for a while going to Morehouse or Hampton, just for the reason of going to an all-black school. Then when I realized why, I thought why am I letting that tell me where I want to go. I thought about going to Howard, and I was pretty serious about that, because they play soccer there and I thought the area would be great. But my dad said No, because of the crime. So there went that plan. Do you believe the number ofblack professors is adequate or inadequate? Ifyou can teach, you can teach. I've been so lucky in my professors, how smart they are, that I've really overlooked that. I'm looking at their brain. Some of these guys are really smart. Like Prof. Reeves in the physics department. I think that guy is so smart, it's just unbelievable. I really don't think that's inadequate at all because the group of professors that are here are unbelievable professors. Do you believe the number ofblack administrators is adequate or inadequate? Explain. The only reason why I would say it's inadequate is if there were feelings ofracial tension, where someone was, like, I'm not gonna teach a black person, or something like that, or except someone to go to this school. But it seems fine to me right now. I don't see any problems with that either. 37. Should the university offer activities designed to bring new black students together? Ifnot, why not? Probably not, because I've heard separate opinions like, oh, they're trying to bring us together, and you just get these negative opinions. I think it's kind of a self-correcting thing. Ifit really needed to be done, the black students will take care of it themselves. Have you heard of the Pride -I guess I was nominated to do that, so I sent in my application for it, and I can't remember the whole mission statement, but it's about helping people to accept diversification at the school. I think that's more how to be diversified, don't try to do -I think that's almost retrogressing, going back to trying to bring everyone together after what blacks have done in the past, to where we've gotten today, getting out of slavery and all that. So I don't think it should be done. Ifit really needed to be done, I think someone would take care of it. Ifyes... do you have suggestions? ... Has the Chavis House played a role in your life at W &L? Please describe. I just go there for MSA meetings. That's about it. I've never gone to a party there, and that's just because I'm not the outgoing type, really. It just hasn't played a major role for me, not that I've purposely done that, it just hasn't. Has the Minority Student Association played a role in your life at W &L? Please describe. Personally, it hasn't done anything. I think it's because it could be run better, personally. No offense to the girls or her, at the head of it, but it just seems like it's poorly run. I don't know how to help run it better. I wasn't able to go to a lot ofthe meetings, just because other things came up. I really didn't put that as a high priority on my list. I don't know why. I mean, I paid my dues, but it seems almost vain just to pay my dues and never go, just to say I'm part of it. For that reason, I think it's pretty bad. Partly it's because ofmy feeling that why don't we all -I mean, it's good to have organizations like that, but it's almost like segregating people again, and we're choosing to do it, after what people before us have gone through. That really bothers me more than anything that all the blacks were sitting at one table. And at my high school it was the same way. And I hated that. I would sit down with all the blacks occasionally, but other days I would sit with my pledge brothers just trying to show them that you guys can talk to other people, you can go and sit other places. I think the reason that happens is that they do feel more comfortable. I wanted to go, when Yolanda King came, and I actually was doing that phone calling that night and had forgotten that I had signed up for that, so I was kind of upset about that, and I could have told them that I wanted to go. But I had skipped so many others because of soccer and stuff, so I went to phoning. Ifl see that something has to be done, I'11 go do it, but seeing her speak wasn't on the top ofmy list anyway, just because, well, Martin Luther King did a lot, he was unbelievable and did all that on his own will, but seeing her speak wouldn't really inspire me that much just because she knew him. It's just not as important as ifhe had come. I'd rather go to hear the person himself. 38. Do you believe that it is important that courses in the humanities/social sciences include recognition or study ofworks by persons ofcolor? Yeah, I think so, by persons of color, different nationalities, just like we have French lit, Italian literature, German literature. There should definitely be, like, a great poet, Langston Hughes. Through literature you learn a lot about what people were feeling at the time. Have you taken many humanities courses here? Not at all. I am taking French literature right now and that's actually it. I'm going to take politics coming up. Ifyou think works by persons ofcolor should be included do you think the recognition was adequate, inadequate, or excessive? Please explain. I can't really answer that. Because I'm not really interested in that area that much so I haven't taken the courses in it. 39. How would you characterize the climate in the classroom for you [ as a black student}? No problems at all. Ifyou have encountered 'problems in the classroom, how have you dealt with those difficulties? 40. What is the role ofthe Office ofMinority Student Affairs? I guess like for me, a major role was when I came to visit, Angela helped me and told me a lot about the school as far as the minority side, and told me that the way I grew up I would like this place a lot. Little things like the Phi Delt thing didn't bother me. I think that's their best function, to help people who are thinking about coming here. How can the role ofthis Office be improved? I think it's good to know that ifl did have to talk to someone, that I could to her if she's there. She had a dinner not too long ago and I really got to know her a lot better there. I was glad I got to talk to her a lot more. Improved? I don't see any problem with it, personally. 41. From whom do you receive the greatest emotional support on campus? Do not use name(s), but please describe the person(s) in terms ofrace, ethnicity, nationality, gender, and position (i.e. fellow student, faculty member, administrator, staffmember). Ifappropriate, include more than one individual and describe the type ofsituations in which the person provides emotional support (i.e. personal, family, religious, etc.) I guess it's just one of my close friends, he's white and American male, he's a student. Honestly I really don't look towards others for emotional support. But whenever I do seem to have a problem, I would confront him about it. When I was changing my major, I talked to him about that. He was like, yeah, it's up to you, it's your choice. Actually, he gave me good advice about what I was dealing with. A lot of the reason why I don't look towards others for emotional support is just because how I've grown up. I've kept a lot inside and I've learned how to deal with things myself. I don't think this friend does the same. I never talk to anybody about my personal or family issues because I'm kinda embarrassed by what I've been through, my dad, and all. I never plan on doing that to kids when I have children. More than anything I'm embarrassed by stuff like that, so I don't really talk about family stuff at all. The only personal stuff I can think of is like girlfriend stuff, and I really don't talk much about that. I really hold a lot of my thoughts in. The one person I have learned to talk to more than anyone is not on the campus, it's my girlfriend. So, she's really helped me out in expressing my feelings. She even said that was a problem of mine. Usually, it's just about academics. Religious stuff I've never really had. What percentage ofyour friends are black, what white, and what international? International, I really don't know any. More white, probably because there are more whites at the school, because I know all the blacks except for the freshmen blacks whom I really haven't got to know that much. Only one who's Jamaican, so he's international and he's black. It's more whites because there are more white students here. All the black students, I think they're my friends, so ... The same with the white students, too. 42. Have you experienced any discriminatory behavior on campus directed against yourself? What form did that behavior take (written remarks including graffiti, spoken remarks, physical assault, discriminatory treatment). Who was responsible for that behavior? Individual students Student groups Greek Non Greek Faculty Staff Security Not really. I think there's a few students that really are, I think, racist. But, like when I was little I used to be really bad about handling kids that were like that and I used to get in a lot of fights about stuff like that, but I've grown out of that. I've learned to deal with that stuff in different ways. No graffiti or anything like that, more just the air -you just know that someone doesn't like blacks -I can think of one kid that still, every time we are around each other you can just sense it. But I just overlook that because I belittle people who are like that. Leaving aside behavior, do you sense racial tensions on campus beyond what exists in the larger society? Ifso, how do you think such tensions could be eased within W &L? Not really. The gay and lesbian group gets made fun of a lot, and I think there's a lot oftension around that group. Alex Christiansen is a great guy for what he is doing, that he's stepping up and talking and saying how he feels. But as far as race, no, not really. It could be that when I'm around it's not really brought up. When I'm with blacks, I remember at one MSA meeting we were talking about changing the name, they were saying they didn't want a certain name because it wasn't saying who the group was. Someone was saying we should make it less directed to just blacks, because anyone can be in the thing right now. Just the minority part throws off everyone, a lot ofpeople at this school. Some thought we should cover a broader range ofpeople, and from that standpoint ... There's more coming from the blacks towards whites than the whites toward blacks. I think a lot ofthat could be coming from envy, because of social status and such. When I was looking at some ofthe people, I was thinking about that because I think that's the big factor to me. One reason could be social status. Maybe some ofthem just don't know how to interact with other groups besides them. Cause I don't know wehre the've all grown up, probably predominantly black neighborhoods. I know my cousins were all in predominantly black neighborhoods and when I would go there, I'd be made fun of because I talk like a white person. If I'd grown up in an area like that I would have more tension toward whites, too. Because you have your parents who are also in that area and went through all the struggles that they went through. You'd constantly hear them talking about that. A lot ofthe parents haven't changed their opinions after what they'd gone through. So the kids grow up around that and their friends parents are like that. It gets instilled in the to be like that. That's where a lot ofthe source is coming from, through their parents and within the neighborhood. When you go to an all-black school, that's part ofthe reason too. Their experiences are definitely what causes the tension that they do have, ifany. I'm not clear on how that was demonstrated by the discussion about the ... Well, I can't remember what the other name was, but someone kinda got in a argument and said there's not way we're changing this name. We're going keep it Minority Student Association, we're the minorities on this campus. Totally defensive. 43. Aside from the Honor System do you believe that the student Executive Committee, the Student Conduct Committee or other University judicial committees treat black and white students equally fairly? Yes. 44. Do you believe that the honor system is applied in an even-handed way to black and white students? Yes. 45. How would you evaluate student publications (i.e. the Ring-tum Phi, the Trident, etc.), the student radio and television stations with regards to opportunities for black students to participate. I think they can participate as well as anyone else. I'm with the radio. I had a radio program spring term with Sam Chase, and we have another program right now but I told them I just didn't feel like doing it anymore. He wants to be a broadcaster, so he eats it up. How would you evaluate them with regard to their treatment ofnews about black students? Sometimes the comics can be pretty offensive, I think. But then there was a period, at the beginning ofthe year, I think, when they were bashing gays and lesbians and I thought that was bad too. It is a newspaper, and they have the right to publish whatever they want. But sometimes it's pretty -like in the Spectator, I think it was, they had the thing about ebonies. I don't agree with ebonies at all but I still took offense to it because it was a major topic and I thought it was pretty cruel. They have a right to talk about it, but the way they did it. 46. Do you feel that black students at Washington and Lee today have problems that are basically different from, or basically similar to those ofwhites? Please describe in what way you feel they are different or similar. I think they're basically similar. We are all trying to get good grades. Everyone's got some kind of problem with either family, friends, or getting along with people. When we come here to school, the main focus is academics. There's time management. I don't see any differences at all because we are all humans and have the same problems when it comes down to it. So, no. Basically similar. *47. Sex M *48. Age? 19 *49. Year in college? SOPHOMORE *50. Cumulative grade point average [as ofFall 1996]? 2.970 *51. How do you identify yourself in terms of nationality? AMERICAN 52. How do you identify yourselfin terms ofrace? Black American. My ancestors were from Africa, so I could say African-American, and I guess I do that too. Black. 53. Are there additional comments you wish to do make about any aspects of Washington and Lee? No, we've basically covered everything. When I first came here I thought it was weird not having MLK (Martin Luther King) holiday off. I talked to Dean Manning a lot and I almost went in and asked him, but then I saw that we don't have Good Friday off, we don't have Easter off, and we don't have a lot off. So I decided to back off that. At first, I thought that was one ofthe only days we didn't have off, and I didn't agree with that, but now -it's a private school and they have their own choices. We have chosen not to take off a lot of other days. You asked me to remind you again to see if........................................... After going through all those questions. I guess my greatest challenge is finding out who I really am. What I'm all about. Because just listening to the questions, a lot ofthem don't even go in sync with me. Like you're saying, it's so complex. It's impossible. It's like being the same, consistent with all the question. At the same time, I hope that I realize that I'm satisfied with what I've done. My biggest thing is to not have any regrets about what I've chosen to do and make the right decisions about certain things. I just trying to figure out who I am. I would like to leave this place my senior year knowing almost everyone at this school. When I left my high school my senior year, attendance 2000, I could say I knew them all, except for the freshmen who had just come in, not all of them really well, but was friends with everyone. I like being friendly and talking to people. That's one of my greatest challenges also. To get to know everyone and have everyone know me before I graduate.