Hagewood interview [Begin Tape I, Side 2] Hagewood: But I think that ours was an era of very happy-go-lucky, and just the fact that the Coke/Pepsi thing was just a huge trauma, whereas now it's more serious issues that are being debated between the faculty and the administration and the students, which I think it's a good thing, but I see more of a sixties-type generation here than 22 what we had. And I think a lot of that is just the eighties was just a funky, mellow, not- much-going-on time anyway, which I think was probably a good time for me to be in college. Warren: One big thing that was going on while you were here was the fraternity renaissance. Hagewood: Actually, it was not. That is another funny thing. It started the year I left. The construction started the year I left. Warren: They were talking about it. Hagewood: They were talking about it, and they needed it. I mean, the fraternity houses, really—I guess I was last class to have all fraternity houses in the shape that they had become. Warren: What were they like? Hagewood: Well, the main thing was that you could party on any floor. The living quarters, the main floor where they ate, parties were thrown in the house, and that was just the way it was, so the hall carpets upstairs were just disgusting. I mean, they were really gross. And the guys' rooms, you know, were what guys' rooms are going to be, but people would, during parties, go in there and just smoke and drink and do whatever, so, yeah, the fraternity houses—the floors were just covered. And so these hardwood floors would just be hosed down, which you know, is not so great for hardwood floors. So they really had some problems. And there were broken windows. It didn't matter. It was kind of like nobody spent any money on the house, so it didn't matter. The year I came back, I'll never forget, first year out, when I came back with my roommates, we all met up here. I guess it was spring, so they had already completed, I guess, four or five houses, and the parties were in the basement. And not only that, there was a rope on the stairs. You couldn't go into the house during parties. I thought, "This is totally weird." Of course we went under the rope to kind of see what it looked 23 like and walked in. There was a grand piano, and there was a chess set all neatly laid out like they were playing chess. And I'll never forget the books, like Moby Dick and all these books that had obviously never been touched. They were just newly bound books sitting in these bookshelves. And little trinkets and things all over the place. And I was like, "This is weird. I can't imagine." So we really did, we never saw a house completed while we were here. I'm not sure exactly when they started the construction, but I do remember that when we came back was when the parties were suddenly in the basement, and there were fines for throwing a rock through a window. It's all a good thing, I think that it's real good, but something about being able to be on all floors of the fraternity house was real fun, too. There was like a third-floor party, a second-floor party, and then there were people in the basement. And now it's kind of like one big party. It just doesn't have the same character to me. It's just not as much fun. Warren: So when you come back now, you still go to fraternity parties? Hagewood: Yeah, actually. I don't know, maybe that's just me, but a lot of the guys— Warren: Oh, I'm delighted to hear it, because I'm invited to one, and I thought, "Oh, God." Hagewood: There are a lot of the guys that I'm on the board with, we always kind of go hang out behind Phi Kap. Yeah, I definitely go. They're totally harmless and a lot of fun. The bands are always good. It's fun for me. I'm a big people watcher, so it's fun for me, and I also like to talk. I like to talk to the students that are here now, just about what it's like, and, "Are you having fun?" So I'm definitely planning on being out there tonight. Warren: You mentioned Mock Convention being a big deal. Tell me about Mock Convention. Hagewood: My sophomore year was when Mock Convention was held. I think that's what the neat thing is about Mock Convention is that you're going to be here for just 24 one, but you're going to see one in your experience a W&L if you stay the full four years. My Mock Convention was just great. I worked on the Georgia float. I was head of the Georgia Float Committee, so we made the float. We did an old Georgia mansion. We did Tara, and we had Rhett and Scarlet on the float, and that was so much fun. I remember somebody told me to paint "Go Dawgs" on the back. I had no idea what they were talking about. You know, I was a sophomore, I didn't know the University of Georgia—of course, I know everything about it now, having lived in Atlanta—but I remember painting "GO DAWGS" and I was like, "What am I doing?" So I learned something. [Laughter] Warren: It was an educational experience. Hagewood: If you consider that an educational experience. But the parade was so much fun, and everybody in the whole school was involved. That's what I liked about it. I remember sitting in the delegation and having a delegate, who was a friend of mine from another delegation, pass me note that said, "The Louisiana delegation challenges you to a rum chug." I know, though, the whole drinking thing is not to be discussed in terms of Mock Convention these days, but it really was just a ton of fun. I was going to say something about Mock Convention. Oh, that was the year Bill Clinton came and spoke. He was our keynote speaker. Oh, little did we know he was going to be President of the United States. [Laughter] And he came out to the pavilion. I know people have told you about this. Warren: No, they haven't. I haven't talked to anybody who was there. Tell me. Hagewood: He played his saxophone and just whooped it up. We had a couple of friends that just got up there and were dancing with him and got in his limo and the secret service—I don't know who they were at that point, they weren't the secret service, but they were the equivalent to the governor, were like, " Girls, you're really going to have to get out of here. We gotta take the governor back to town." [Laughter] And I just remember thinking, "This man is just whooping it up with all these kids. It's 25 so funny," never realizing that he was ever going to be the president. Now I look at him and I'm like, "That was you." So that's neat. I mean, that's kind of neat that we all got to experience the guy who's now leading our country, which, you know, is such a great thing about Mock Convention. These kids get together with, and especially the people that are leading Mock Convention, and get to know these very important people, which is not something that happens every day. To be able to have dinner with, or lunch with, or have a phone conversation with Dan Quayle, to organize his trip, and I just think that's really neat. It was funny, I was just sitting at home—and now that I live at home, it's really great, I'm real close to my parents. My dad called me, eight o'clock in the morning, he was like, "I'm sorry to wake you up. Just wanted to let you know that Mock Convention's on C-SPAN." I was like, "Oh, great, thanks." So I turned it on and watched it all day long. And it was just so funny. I kept looking and seeing faces I recognized, and every time that the crowd would cheer and I'd see just what great coverage Washington and Lee was getting from this nationwide network, it was just unbelievable. I'm so proud. You know, it's like, at the bottom, "Washington and Lee University," and they kept flashing up how often Washington and Lee had been correct. And I was like, "People all over the world are watching this right now, it's just so great." And so I listened to all the speeches, and they were just great this year. So that made me real proud, and I think that's something that's real good for W&L. And I'm glad that it's getting bigger and stronger, and I'm glad that they got it right again this year. Warren: One of the things that I found intriguing—I found the whole process very exciting to be there. It was a thrill for me to be part of the whole thing. One of the things I found intriguing—and since you watched it, you know what I mean—that everybody was so excited that it was a Republican convention, and they didn't have to pretend anymore. 26 Hagewood: Well, I have to tell you, that was tough for us, that we were not a crew of Democrats. There were some, but I, at the time—and one thing that I wish is that I had been a little bit older when Mock Convention came. I think it's sometimes unfortunate for the freshmen, maybe even for the sophomores, because you're not as involved. Some of us got as involved as we could be, but we were not as involved as the juniors and seniors, who had several years to plan and were heads of the committees. So I think where your dice fall, it's up to you, but I really wish that I had been a junior or a senior at the time, to get more involved, but also to understand what was really going on. I'm not even sure that some of us understood that we were nominating for the party that was not in power. Mock Democratic Convention, I think some of us probably thought that every year there was a Mock Democratic Convention. That was what it was referred to, was the Mock Democratic Convention. And I'm sure that some of the younger people—and I know I probably felt the same way, I was like, "Well, every year we have this Mock Democratic Convention. Is that because most of us have Republican thoughts?" [Laughter] I think it suddenly occurred to me, maybe a year later, that next year's convention, if a Democrat were to be in office over the next four years, it would be a Republican convention. But I think that was real fun and probably brought a different air to the convention, just because. Warren: Was it a lot of playacting? Was it hard to be enthusiastic about it? Hagewood: It wasn't a lot of playacting. It was real easy to be enthusiastic, but I don't think we were as enthusiastic about the speakers as they were this year, simply because they would get up there and they would speak on the Democratic platform, which a lot of us were staunchly opposed to. Not staunchly—at that age you're never staunchly opposed to anything, but our parents didn't believe in. I can't say that, because my parents are hardcore Democrats. They don't know how they raised a Republican. It was like, "Well, look where you sent me to school." But I think it wasn't playacting at 27 all. You didn't have that same paparazzi that was there for this last one, where they were just like really psyched that Newt [Gingrich] was going to be here. I thought the funniest thing that I heard on TV was when they were talking about how the kids were going, "Newt, Newt, Newt, Newt, Newt," and how Dan Quayle or somebody, said, "Do you hear all that booing?" And they were like, "No, that's not booing, they're going, 'Newt, Newt, Newt!'" Warren: Well, it was very low. Hagewood: So it sounded like booing. Warren: So it did sound like booing. Hagewood: It sounded like booing to me on the TV, so I was glad that he had said that in his speech, that it wasn't booing, that they were saying "Newt." Warren: Through the day, as you probably heard, it got lower and lower and lower, and those of us who'd been there in the afternoon knew what it was, but in the evening there were people who were saying, "What's this booing?" And we said, "Oh, no, no, no, no, it's Newt, Newt." But the tone got lower and lower as they were doing it. Hagewood: So I thought that was funny, that that was what they were doing. But this year it looked even bigger and better than I've ever seen it, maybe it was because I was watching it on TV. But I'm just real glad that that's come to the national forefront, and that W&L's still—just the number of articles that were published about it this year. Also it was because the race was at a good point. Warren: It was the perfect time for it. Hagewood: And I'm real glad they moved it up. I mean, if they hadn't moved it up, it wouldn't have been as much fun. Warren: It was the perfect timing for it. Hagewood: But I think they should move it up even maybe another week, just make it a real unknown. Warren: It was the perfect timing for it. It was as dramatic as it could have been. 28 Hagewood: I remember that whole week and the weeks leading up to it very fondly, as a real good experience. Warren: So there's a lot of partying associated with it, too? Hagewood: Yes, definitely. Now they have a homecoming float, a homecoming parade, and I think that was an old tradition that we never had the whole time I was here. I tell my friends now, I'm like, "Yeah, I went to a board meeting for homecoming, a lot of fun. They had the parade." Because I've seen it a couple of years. They're like, "What? The parade?" So for us, the parade was just a really big deal, because the only time in our four years that we ever built a float, because we didn't have the big football parades or float-building, so that was real fun. I think it might not be as big a deal now, because they have it every—every fall they have a parade. Warren: Were sports important? Hagewood: Sports were very important. I always had a lot of good friends on the football team, and I always felt bad for them because lacrosse was such a big deal. The football games, people went to, but they went for the first half, and then went to a party, or a party first and then went to the second half. I always felt bad because those guys worked so hard. They practiced long hours and they had the same schoolwork we did, and had they gone to a different school, they probably would have gotten a lot more support. So I always felt real bad for the teams, and the basketball team. It wasn't the same as the larger schools, but they work just as hard, so it was always amazing to me, the commitment that they had. The lacrosse games were always so much fun, but it's the area of the country we're in, the population that we draw from, the Baltimore population where lacrosse was real big in high school. Women's sports was just a whole other issue when I was here. I don't know how many sports we had freshman and sophomore year, but we started Club Lacrosse, which was real fun for us girls from the South who'd never seen it before. I remember when guys who went away to Episcopal would come down for their spring breaks, or 29 come home for the summer with these lacrosse sticks, and we'd go out to the park and they'd show us how to throw. And you're like, "What is this? This is so funny." So that was real fun for me to play, because I'd just never played the sport. I was really big into the music area. I spent a lot of time in this building. What I'm real happy to see now is obviously the music and drama and those departments have taken off with the building of the Lenfest Center. I know a lot of people are like, "What are we doing building this big performing arts center? We don't even have a performing arts major. It's kind of a strange thing to spend so much money on." But I really do think—I used to be embarrassed by our facilities. My high school had a much bigger, better auditorium than my college did. Which was kind of a strange thing. So now I really do think that that's really helped the school out, and I know that a lot more students are involved in music. And also you get the backlash from the other departments. They're like, "We're going to get a bunch of violinists in here." [Laughter] But I think it's good to have a diversified group. I guess now they've got six or seven or more singing ensembles, which is amazing to me. There's a new one cropping up all the time. But I think that's real good that the arts has been enhanced here, because it was really lacking, especially on the drama side. There just weren't that many people that were interested in it. So that's real good for me to see that that's changing. Warren: Before we started, you were mentioning that you were in JubiLee. Tell me about that. Hagewood: Well I actually only did that for a short while, so I probably wouldn't put that in the book if I were you, because I ran out of time. I did more just in the regular chorus, and I also played the piano for a short while with Southern Comfort, which was real fun. I got to play the piano for them at one of their concerts. Warren: But tell me about those experiences. What do you get out of being in a group like that? 30 Hagewood: The best thing about being in any of the singing ensembles is just meeting different people that you wouldn't otherwise meet. And we went on great trips, which, again, you really get to know people a lot better, guys and girls both. Dr. Spice took us to London. That was really just one of the greatest experiences that I remember in the singing groups. And also they do trips over spring break to alumni chapters. I know that the alumni really love to see them come, and it's really one of the better events that we have at any of our chapters is when we get a singing group to come through, because they really are entertaining and a lot of fun. I don't really know what else to say about that. It's just that if you love to sing and you love to sing with other people who love to sing, it's really a lot of fun. Dr. Spice really did a great job of getting us performances, the ability to sing in Lee Chapel. I think standing on stage in Lee Chapel and singing a solo is probably one of the best memories that I have, just the ability to stand up there in front of an audience of people and in that environment it was just really unbelievable, just really neat. Warren: Why is Lee Chapel special? Hagewood: I think it all stems from your first day when they have you sit in there, and they just instill this aura about the place and about the school and about the honor system, that you really—I didn't forget it, just that feeling of sitting in there that first day, sitting straight up in those benches and just kind of looking around at all my classmates that were just like me, from all over the place, and just kind of looking at the two pictures. It's a vision I'll never forget. And looking at Lee in repose, I mean, the whole experience is just really unbelievable, where ten minutes earlier, you were outside running around laughing, joking, and two hours later you were going to be down at a fraternity house drinking grain punch on the back porch, but for right now, you're sitting in Lee Chapel and you're gazing upon these different visual effects and looking at the plaques engraved on the wall, and it just really is such a very special place, and you're hearing some 31 things from some people that you just learn to really respect, just the whole concept of the honor system and being a gentleman and everything that goes with that. I use that word. Truthfully, I still think that is a great way to put it: "Act as a gentleman in every way," and the women must do that as well. I don't take any offense at going back to that phrase, because I really do think it pertains. The whole concept of the honor system here is really just an overriding concept that I think helps the school in every way. Warren: Talk to me about that. Hagewood: To me, the not cheating was just a given. You would hope that at other universities that would also be the case. Whether it is or not, I don't know. I can't judge. To me, the honor system was much more important in the areas of respecting everybody around you, respecting their things, putting things back where you got them, much less to do than copying pages from a book or copying from somebody's test, but more just the feeling that you got that when you left your books in your carrel they were going to be there when you got back. If you left your homework assignment, somebody wasn't going to come and take it. I mean, just that feeling is something that I've talked to a lot of people about, they didn't have in their college experience. It was the race to the library to get the book, because if it was some article that you were supposed to look at, you run the risk of someone ripping the pages out. That is just absurd, but you hear those stories about other college experiences, and I can't imagine that here. I can't imagine going to college in that environment. But what I loved is people riding their bikes up just tossing them on the ground and running to class. My bike is going to be fine there. I don't know if it's the same now or not. I don't know if there's still that feeling, but it was such a great feeling when I was here, just that my stuff was going to be there where I left it. And that feeling of trust, to be able to take your exams at any time, is really just an unbelievable thing that you don't get at most schools, where somebody could take it on a Monday and I could 32 be taking it on a Friday, and the professors—you know, how easy would that be for you to switch exams? Like me take one on Monday, you take one on Friday, and then we would ace the other—I mean, just the fact that that doesn't even cross students' minds and cross professors' minds, or certainly didn't when I was here. I don't know, again, if it's still the same. I would hope that it is. That is such a great feeling of trust that's instilled in the student, that I think they turn around and instill in each other. But I think a lot of it comes down from the faculty. Just saying, "I trust that you're going to do the right thing," so that we can feel good about ourselves and look to our peers and say, "I trust that you're going to do the right thing." And I think that's really helped me. It might have clouded my judgment about other people a little bit in the real world, but I think it made me a better person, and I think it made me realize if I couldn't trust this other person, it wasn't someone I wanted to work with. So while I think people sometimes worry, "Oh, W&L. You went to such a sheltered environment. It's like going to a high school all over again and everything's hunky dory and you don't have to worry about the thievery or cheating or people pushing you down to get ahead. You know you're going to stumble when you get out into the real world," I don't think that's true. I think you seek out other people that have had the same experience you have to work with, and just kind of go on that way. So that was kind of my take on the Lee Chapel and the honor system. I know I do a lot of interviewing of students now, and that's the first question I ask, "Have you heard about the honor system at W&L?" And I sometimes judge what I write about them based on what they say about it. Number one, if they've never heard of it, then I know they haven't really looked at W&L. They haven't really talked to anyone about it, Because I feel like if they had truly researched at all about this school— and these are students—when I'm doing the interview, these are students that are generally seniors, and it's pretty late in the process, and they haven't been able to make 33 it to campus, so they're interviewing with an alum. I love doing it because I think it's important that somebody talks to the student before they come here. I know they used to say that everybody at W&L has an interview. And I do really feel like—I don't know how many—95 percent, maybe, maybe it is 100 percent of students that are accepted to W&L have had an interview of some sort, whether it's alums. I think that's real important, which is why I like doing that. But if I do hear that they don't really know anything about it, then I think they're not real serious about W&L. They haven't really talked to anybody about it, they don't really know what it stands for. And then I get some answers that just blow me away, when they've said, "Oh I've heard this," or, "I've talked to so and so about this and that's why I want to go there." I'm like, "Check. This person understands what it's going to be like and the responsibility that's going to be on them when they get here." I remember going to professors and saying, "I've got this going on, and this going on, and I really can't take this test next Tuesday. Could I take it next Thursday?" and having the professor say yes. What a great thing that was. And you didn't abuse it, because you didn't know if it was always going to be there if you started abusing it. But just to be able to have that trust instilled was really something that was great. Warren: Were there any teachers who particularly made a difference for you? Hagewood: There were several, and I think every student has two or three teachers that really have an impact on them. I can name names. I thought at first I was going to be a biology major. I was going to go pre-med. I thought since I was the only person in my sixth-grade class that could dissect the frog, and the only person in my eleventh grade biology class that could dissect the pig, that I was just destined. You know, I was the only one that could stand the sight of it. I was just Miss Scalpel. I remember thinking, "Oh, well, I must be just destined to be a doctor," so definitely pre-med. So Dr. Nye, in the biology department, was my first advisor. I went through my first year, and I forget when it was that I decided that I 34 didn't want to be in school for however many more years, that I wanted to go ahead and get a degree that I could get out and have a job with. I don't remember what it was that made me decide I didn't want to be a biology major, but I changed my mind. And I went to Dr. Nye, and I'll never forget just the look on his face, because I had been in his biology class and I'd done really well, and he was my advisor, so we really hit it off. And I loved him, I thought he was great. And I remember I went to him and I said, "You know, I'm going to change over to the C School for my sophomore year (which I guess is now the Williams School) and I'm going to be an accounting major." He was like, "An accounting major? What on earth?" To me that was just the first thing I could think of when it came to a person who could get a job when they first got out of school, like accounting. Okay, I can do that. That has to have something to do with math, so I guess I can do that. I just remember the look on his face when he said, "You know, this is such a waste. I know you were really good at this, and I know that you really thought that you wanted to do this." He just really took a personal interest. I said, "No, I really do think that I don't want to be a pre-med." And since then, every time I run into him on campus, he's like, "Hey, how are you liking crunching those numbers?" [Laughter] But he was just real funny about it, and real supportive, and just real cute about it. So I remember that fondly. And then once I did get into the C School, there were several teachers that I just had a real admiration for because most of the professors that I had, had had outside jobs at some point in their lives, and that, I thought, was important. I know it's different in business school, and in English or a history major, but these people brought real-world experience to the classroom, which I really appreciated. So I guess amongst then, Joe Goldsten was obviously a real favorite, because he would talk about the real world. He would put everything that he said in a context. 35 "Forget about this book. Let's talk about how it works." And that, to me, was very intriguing. And then later on, Kip Pirkle, who was new, came in. Warren: Who was that? Hagewood: Kip Pirkle. I know he just got tenure recently. But he came and he taught a policy class, and I remember that as, I think, the best class I ever had, because, again, for some reason I was fixated on the real world. I wanted to get out there, I wanted to be a part of it. But his class taught about companies, and we had cases. It was pretty much run like a Harvard Business School would run a case. I don't know, I didn't go to Harvard Business School, but I've read all the funny books. But it pretty much was run like a business school would run its cases, where you had a case and you studied it, and you did all the research, and you worked in a team, worked in a group of people and came up with a solution. And we used film, we used videotape. I had a group of five people. That, to me, was the best thing. We'd get so into these cases, we'd stay up all night long working on our strategy and, "You go do research on this. You start making that. You start building this, and you start videotaping that." That was so much fun. I mean, granted, at that time we were probably the juniors or seniors and so you kind of get more into the group thing than just an individual study. But I just remember that. I think that was the best academic experience I had. And he would grill you. You would get in there to what we would call present your case, and you'd wear a suit. Again, real world. You'd wear a suit, you'd go in there, and you'd be play-acting, basically, as the CFO or the CEO of this company. One of ours was basically us sitting around a boardroom talking about what had gone wrong in the company and how we were going to fix it and all the research. I mean, it was just really neat. I think if professors can bring a little bit of the real world—and again, I come from a very stinted side of it, and that's another thing that I'd have to say, I didn't get to 36 take a lot of English classes. I didn't take any art. I didn't take any history. I got out of W&L without ever having a history class, which everyone in this university will be, and should be, mortified at that. But I placed out. I took two AP classes my sophomore and junior year in high school. I took AP European and AP American history, and made good enough grades on the AP exams to place out of history, which was good for me because in my major there were so many classes you had to take. But a lot of times I look back and I think wistfully, "I wish that I could go back another four years and be an art major." You know, to be any kind of major. Be a languages major. That's one thing that I feel like I didn't get. So I went to a very different W&L than a lot of people, than a lot of my friends did, the ones that got to take. I did get to take a Sidney Coulling English. He was just another just great joy. That was one thing I said, "If I only get to take one English class while I'm here, it's going to be with Sid Coulling." So I did get to do that. Warren: Tell me about that. Hagewood: Oh, it was just wonderful. His mode of teaching and just the aura around him and the respect the students had for him was unbelievable. I mean, it really was just a fascinating experience. I could just sit and listen to him lecture all day. He really was interested in what the students had to say. I don't really remember what the situation was, but I remember taking a paper to him, and I had really thrown it together. I don't remember what other thing I had going on in my major, but that week was just overbearing. I'd really thrown this English paper together, and I took it to him and he said, "I'm going to extend your deadline one more week, and I want you to bring it back to me." And I did, and he said, "This is really one of the best pieces I've read in a while." And I was like, "I just needed a little more time." 37 He said, "You should have asked for a little more time." And that stuck with me. He said, "You should have been honest about what was going on with all your other classes and that this week just happened to be a really bad week." He said, "You just should have asked me for more time. I would have given it to you." That was probably my freshman year or my sophomore year. From there on, I didn't hesitate to go to professors and say, "You know, I just—," and it sounds like I did that a lot, I really didn't do it that much. But whenever there was a problem or whenever there was something I didn't understand, or a homework assignment I didn't get to, I would just say, "Here's what I was doing. I was singing in this and I was practicing for that, and doing this and doing that, and I just really didn't have time to prepare." But that stuck with me when he said that. Sid Coulling was just great. So many other professors were so good, too. I can't remember his name now, but he was real funny. But that is one thing that I would encourage people to do, is to try to diversify their course load if they can. Warren: Did you have any problem with how few women there were on the faculty? Hagewood: There were no women in my major at all. I didn't have a problem with it, but again, I'm the type that says, "Don't rock the boat. They're doing what they think is best." I don't know, I've always worked better with men than with women, and I'll just admit that. So I don't know. I mean, some women feel like if they'd had a woman professor they might have been able to relate better. I relate better to men. Warren: Were there many girls in your major? Hagewood: There weren't too many, but there weren't as many as like in an English major. But an accounting major, there were pretty many. In my business classes there weren't that many. I would say in a class of fifteen people, there would be about three girls, so that was a little strange. But when I left and went to work for Arthur Andersen, I went to work for a group that was twenty-two men and me, because it was computer-related, and there 38 just weren't any women in that field at the time. I mean, there were women in there, but not that many. So I kind of went from the same environment that I was in here, working in the same environment there. And to this day, I still work mostly with all men. I'd have to say, I don't know, 90 percent of the people in my field are men. So I don't know if that was because I came from this environment that I felt more comfortable in it, or that I came to this environment because I felt more comfortable in it. I really don't know. It's kind of funny. I haven't really even thought about that, but after going to an all-girls' school, I may have subconsciously chose this place just to interact with men. And if you write anything about that, people are going to be like, "Okay. Let's see. She has an identity/gender crisis going on." Warren: We'll send this to the psychology department. Hagewood: "She needs some help." [Laughter] But I really do, I've always just kind of worked not better with men, but I've just enjoyed it, working in the same environment. Warren: You were in several of the more interesting organizations here. You were in Kathekon. Talk about that. Hagewood: Kathekon was real different than it was now. Warren: Did it start when you were here? Hagewood: It was, I think, the year before I got here. I think there was one year where it was all men. But it was very new when I was here. But the process of getting into Kathekon was very different then than it is now. I think now is probably a better way to do it, but then you were basically voted on from within Kathekon, so you were basically picked by the people who were in Kathekon. It was like a great honor. I mean, that was a real honor for me to be chosen as someone who might be able to make a difference. And I guess Jim Farrar refers to Kathekon now as Alumni In Training, which is exactly what it is. You get involved in the different areas of the school; you assist alumni when they come back; you're kind of in charge of alumni weekends; you assist the Alumni House with their stuff. You really do. And now as a member of the 39 alumni board, we get for our individual chapters—and the chapter presidents all around the country also get—the names of all Kathekon members when they move to their cities. So immediately you are thrust into the "We need your help. Be on the alumni board, be on the committee to do this and do that." So I think it's a very important group of people to kind of assimilate and kind of go ahead and put—I mean, the alumni office knows what they're doing with this group, because you bestow this honor on them, and you let them walk around with a cool blue tag on alumni weekends, and they'd get to be involved in neat stuff. But when they graduate, they feel this sense of responsibility. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing; I'm saying it's a great thing. It's a very good marketing tactic they've got going. Warren: Real smart. Hagewood: It's real smart. At the time, I didn't know that this was happening to me. [Laughter] But what it did was it instilled a sense of responsibility to the school for me, and I know a lot of other Kathekon members feel the same way. You are forever a Kathekon member. Not like it's some big elite society, but you have been allowed to do certain things while you're in school so that when you get out of school, you still feel this responsibility to the school, this bond with the school, this feeling of you were given something and you want to give back. Warren: So how are Kathekon members selected now? Hagewood: Now they apply. You can actually apply to be a Kathekon member, and then you go through an interview process, which I think you probably get a better sampling of people that way, which I think is important in keeping alumni relations good from all groups of people. Warren: And who does the interviewing? Hagewood: Current Kathekon members, I think, is how they do it now. But I think that's probably a better way because you run the risk, if not doing that, that my little type of person picks me, and that I'm the same type of person. I pick my type of 40 person, and it just goes on. You know, the same fraternities pick their fraternity brothers, and it goes on and on. You don't get the same mix of people. One other thing is the sense of commitment. One story I haven't told was why I do so much for W&L now. I think I'd probably do it no matter what just because I really love the school and I want to see it prosper. I want to see it continue. But W&L really did change my life. I got a full scholarship to go to school here. My parents are lovely, wonderful people, but I'm fairly sure they would not have been real happy about paying. At the time it was $13,000 a year to send me here. So I got to come here free ride, and I also had a National Merit Scholarship, so I got $2,000 a year just for being in school, and that was so great. But it was so wonderful, I was selected to come on campus in my senior year, and basically interview for these scholarships, and they call it Honor Scholars Weekend. You get to stay on campus, and you interview with students and you interview with faculty. Then I was selected for a full scholarship, which was really just the best thing that the school could have ever done for me. I mean, that was great. I really don't think I would have been able to come here had I not received the scholarship. So I really do feel a certain commitment to W&L, and like I said, I'm sure that I would be doing this, or the amount of work that I do for W&L now anyway, but I'll never forget them doing that for me. I mean, that really was a great thing that I got from the school, so I continue to try to give back every year. I'll never be able to get up to how many thousands of dollars that was, in giving of my time, but I'm trying. So that's kind of why I feel a sense of commitment. That, plus Kathekon. Things like that through my years here, being able to work in student phone-a-thons. I have one good story about student phone-a-thons, and then I know you want to wrap it up. Warren: Let me pop in another tape.