Booth interview [Begin Tape 1, Side 2] Warren: Was there anything else you’d like us to talk about, being a student? I’d like to move on to the return of Lea Booth, unless you have something else you want to say. Booth: If you turn it off, I’ll tell you. Warren: Tell me exactly— Booth: Turn it off, and I’ll tell you. Warren: Tell me what this Lynchburg Citation means. What is the Lynchburg Citation? Booth: It’s just somebody who has done something significant for the school or for the local chapter, but it’s usually given to somebody who we think is a great asset to the school. Dr. Joe B. Craddock [phonetic], he’s a local alumnus. My God, he was active. I mean, he’d go and recruit for students, and was the leading physician in this town. Everybody loved him. He was just—everybody loved him. And Sydney and Frances Lewis, obviously. And Rupert Latture, because he was the longest-serving person on the staff. Jimmy Leyburn, the dean. Cy Twombly, the very successful coach. These are people who—you can have that, that’s a copy. Warren: Thank you. Let’s get back to when you returned to Washington and Lee after the war. Booth: I don’t remember. Did I go back? I don’t remember. Warren: I think you did. 19 Booth: Really? [Laughter] Warren: Well, you went back to work. So Frank said the question I need to ask you is how on Earth you got so much publicity for this little school in Virginia. Booth: I don’t know. I must have some contacts around the state. The leading newspaper in the state was the Richmond Post, that’s the Richmond News Leader, and the sports editors of both of those papers were good friends of mine, and the managing editors. I got to be friendly with the editorial people, so they just wouldn’t turn us down. When we sent them a story, they’d print it. At this Hall of Fame banquet in October this year, it was mentioned that Washington and Lee football had gotten the National Oddity of the Year Award a couple of times. Well, I don’t know how, but Hugh Fullerton was the national sports editor of the Associated Press, that means head of the whole nation. He and I, I don’t remember how we got to be buddies. I remember he came to visit us in Lexington one time. One summer I can remember sitting out in the back yard and making mint juleps for him. I don’t know. but we got pretty good visibility in those days, Mame. I can’t tell you exactly why. I tried to butter up all the newspaper people that I had to deal with. Here this morning, I haven’t opened it yet. Here’s a letter from Carlton Bowen [phonetic], who’s a retired editor of the Roanoke Times. He calls upon me, and we still keep in touch with each other. And Chauncey Dern [phonetic], who is the sports editor of the Richmond Times, that’s my dear friend, we became great buddies. I was a pallbearer at his funeral. He would send reporters and photographers all the way to Lexington from Richmond to our sports events up there. I don’t know how. I can’t answer your question, except they were all so wonderfully kind to us. I guess because we tried to be kind to them. I remember the New York Times, they used to pay me for— [Tape recorder turned off] I remember during the Bicentennial, a story I did, and I got a check for ten dollars. They paid me. But every now and then the New York Times would pay me for a story I’d done. Ten 20 dollars. But I don’t know how it happened. It’s been too long for me to recall what techniques, if any, we used to get all this publicity. I remember we were the first Virginia team ever to play in a major football bowl. When we went to the Gator Bowl, it was the season of 1950, and we played January 1, 1951. It was tragic in one respect. Walter Michaels, who was a star fullback and then became a National Football League head coach, Walter Michaels had appendicitis. After we had gone to Florida to train for the game during Christmas vacation, Michaels developed appendicitis, and they had to rush him to the hospital. I took him, as a matter of fact, to the hospital. The coach had me take him. He didn’t play. Gil Bocetti said he was the greatest quarterback in Washington and Lee history. His father died while we were down there, and he had to leave the practice. He was really stressed out by his father’s sudden death. So we lost a game to a team that we should have beaten, University of Wyoming. But we were the first Virginia team. And they asked me, the Gator Bowl Committee—by the way, some of our alumni helped to boost W&L’s stock in Jacksonville to get us down there. One of them was a fellow named Pritchett [phonetic]. I remember. I can’t remember all of their names. But it was our Jacksonville alumni chapter had a great deal to do with our going to the Gator Bowl. I can remember the chairman of the Gator Bowl called me and asked me would I be willing to set up a press and radio—that was before TV—press radio hospitality quarters in the hotel for all the sportswriters from all over the nation that came for this, and we did. I called Smith-Bowman [phonetic] Distilleries. They manufacture Virginia Gentleman. And, you know, it’s run now by—W&L people run it, you know, Jay Adams and Bobby Lee, Robert E. Lee. I think they are the heads of Smith-Bowman. Frank Parsons could tell you, but I’m sure it is true. So I called Smith-Bowman. This was before they went to work for them. I talked to Mr. Bowman, and I said, "We’re going to 21 try to play in the Gator Bowl game, and I’m in charge of hospitality for the press, and I’d like to take some Virginia Gentleman whiskey." They said, "We’ll be glad to, we’ll donate the whiskey, but how are you going to get it?" He said, "You’ve got a tax problem, you know, on the stuff." I forget the details of it. Anyway, it was legal. The way he did it was perfectly legal. Crossing the state line with it, that’s what it was. He said, "Mr. Booth, how are you all going?" I said, "The whole team is catching a train in Richmond to go to Jacksonville. We’ll bus to Richmond and then take a train." So I called and told him exactly what train we were going to be on. We got to Richmond to catch the train. I boarded the passenger car, and some conductor said, "Is there a Mr. Booth in this crowd?" He said, "We’ve got some whiskey for you here." And there were three cases, three cases of Virginia Gentleman whiskey put on the train for us to take to Florida. I’ve got downstairs now—I don’t know if I can find them—we got letters from all over the United States complimenting this good Virginia whiskey from the sportswriters that hung out in the hospitality room. The Bowl reimbursed us for all the expenses. Virginia Gentleman whiskey was a real hit, and now it’s amazing that that company is owned and operated by Washington and Lee people. I think I sent Bobby Lee or Jay Adams—I believe I made Xerox copies a year or two ago of those letters that I still have from the sports editor of the Denver Post and the Cheyenne paper and papers from all over the country were there, thanking us for the delicious Virginia whiskey. Warren: That’s great. Do I understand that Steve Miles was— Booth: Oh, Lord, yes. Let me tell you that story. They called me up from Jacksonville and said, "The University of Wyoming is bringing a queen or princess to the game, and we want Washington and Lee to select one of its students to be the prince, the prince of 22 the Gator Bowl." And I didn’t know who to get, so I went to Dean Gilliam, and Dean Gilliam said, "I think maybe you would want to take Steve Miles." So sure enough, with Dean Gilliam’s help—I don’t know that I even knew Steve as a student, because I was on the payroll, I wasn’t a student anymore. So we enlisted Steve to be the prince of the Gator Bowl. He went down there, and he and the princess from the University of Wyoming didn’t hit it off well at all. I think he terrified her and she terrified him. But, anyway, he was indeed the prince of the Gator Bowl. In those days they had a student from each school be introduced at the half-time, you know, to get some visibility. And here Steve is now—is he Chairman of the Board of Washington and Lee? Warren: He just retired as rector of the board. Booth: Well, I haven’t seen him in many, many years. If I did, I’d call him Prince Miles. If you’re ever in touch with him, call him Prince Miles. Warren: I will, now that I know. Booth: Please do. He will wonder, “Why in the hell did this come from?” I wonder would he know what we’re talking about. Steve was a good fellow. He was a handsome young man. That’s why Dean Gilliam picked him, I think, because of his looks. I don’t know. But anyway, he was the prince of the Gator Bowl. [Tape recorder turned off] They used to have something put on in Doremus Gymnasium called "W&L’s a- Poppin’" because there was a great Broadway hit called "Hell’s a-Poppin’." It was "W&L’s a-Poppin’." It was a cute show. We had a one act play, and I helped to write the one-act play. I think Roger Mudd had the lead role in it, I’m not sure. If he denies it, don’t cuss me. I just can’t remember. I think Roger had it. It was a burlesque on the college physician, Dr. Reid White, who was a hell of a good guy, by the way, my dear friend when I worked there. A student came in. Dr. White had a nurse, I forget her name, that everybody knew. The students used to go to his office. He took care of the whole crowd. This student played, I think, by Roger Mudd, I’m not sure. came in, and 23 the punch line was, after examining the student, Dr. White says, "Nurse So-and-so," whatever her name was, "Nurse So-and-so, go get him some of that new miracle drug, bicarbonate of soda." That was the punch line. [Laughter] But it was fun. The students staged the whole thing, and it was called "W&L’s a-Poppin’." I don’t know how long it lasted or how many years it went on. They don’t have anything like that now, do they? Warren: Not quite like that. Not any variety show, nothing like that. But they do do a number of productions at the Lenfest Center, but they’re real straight drama. As far as I know, that’s all they do. I wanted to talk about the things that went on during the Bicentennial year. I know there was a commemorative stamp and there were, I assume, a lot of convocations. Booth: A lot of convocations with prominent speakers. I remember one speaker was— what was his name—oh, Lord, from the University of Chicago, who was one of the pioneers in the atomic energy—I’ll think of it in a minute. I remember one of my jobs. See, there wasn’t any air service there. Lord, what was his name? But one of my jobs was, I ran the transit service. Some famous speaker would come in to lecture at W&L, and we’d have to pick him up on a train over at Clifton Forge. Our railroad ran through Clifton Forge. That was as close as you could get on a through train, I mean coming from Chicago or someplace like that. So I used to have to drive over there and pick up these people and bring them back. I remember driving back with this famous physicist, he was internationally famous. I wish I could— I’ll think of it. I was just delighted to hear him say when we were driving to Lexington and chatting, he said, "I really wanted to see Washington and Lee. I hear it’s a great undergraduate school. To this day, my greatest joy in life is teaching undergraduates." And here he was, this world-famous scientist, teaching undergraduate students. He said that was what he enjoyed in life most of all. What was his name? He was a speaker during the Bicentennial. 24 We had several prominent speakers, I remember, none of them in Dr. Gaines’ class. I’d rather hear him than any of them. Like Dr. Harold Willis Dodge [phonetic], the president of Princeton, was there. All I can really remember about it, though, is lectures, the convocations and things, and I can’t remember the other events related to the Bicentennial. I just don’t remember. I’m sorry. Warren: And how about the stamp? You said that you went and got yours postmarked that day? Booth: Well, yes. They did have an envelope, and it had written on the envelope, it had a little etching of the school, "first day of issue." So it became a collector’s item if you had the postmark for that day, and I’ve got one here. I don’t remember what day of the year it was. April something, I think. Do you know when it was? Warren: I think it was April 12. Booth: That book you had a minute ago would show it. April 12. They were postmarked in Lexington with that date on it, and that made it a collector’s item, you see. First day of issue. Warren: And did everybody do that? A lot of students? Booth: A lot of people did. I bet a lot of them did. I’ll bet there are a lot of those things around. But it was thrilling to be the first college in the nation ever to have a stamp commemorate, it was. That alumnus in New Jersey, he is the one that deserves all the thanks. What was his name again? Warren: Roy Grimley. Booth: Roy Grimley. That’s right. Warren: He made it happen. Booth: Remember that the movie that we made of the Bicentennial was the first movie of its kind ever made by a college in the nation, too. Warren: Tell me about that. 25 Booth: Well, you’ll have to get it and look at it. It shows classes, and shows Dr. Gaines speaking, and all the aspects of the school. I remember it seems to me like Fred Perry, the tennis coach, is in it. It was only about fifteen or twenty minutes, the length of it. They showed this thing, I remember, four or five years ago at some function. I think we have a VCR sitting up here. Frank can tell you all about it. You ought to look at it. I remember the photographer who came there to work with me was a man named Chapman, and he was the one that took all the pictures. I remember one he took, we flew over Lexington and he shot the picture of the campus from above. Of course, Dr. Gaines is in there. That was produced at the Bicentennial and is still extant. I hope you’ll go and look at it. Warren: I will. Absolutely. Booth: Mame, if they can’t find one, I’m pretty sure somebody gave me one recently, within the past four or five years. Warren: I’ll find it. I can track it down. You mentioned Fred Perry. Tell me about Fred Perry. What was he doing at Washington and Lee? Booth: I was a student assistant in the news bureau. I think that’s when it happened, or was it after? Was it while I was a student, or while I worked there that Fred Perry came? Warren: I can look it up. Booth: Anyway, he came in the office and said that his father was the head of this Associated Tennis Sports Association. It was a voluntary thing. I mean, it wasn’t a paid job. He was the head of a local committee that put on the Fox River or Fox Valley Tennis Tournament in Wisconsin or Minnesota. Wisconsin, I think, where he was from. Fred Perry, who had been the world’s greatest tennis player, of course—I mean, Perry won Wimbledon three years. He would have won on and on and on, except in those days all the tournaments were amateurs only. No professional could play in it. They changed the rules years later. So Fred had to quit playing the circuit when he turned 26 pro, because some prominent sports promoter—I’ve forgotten who it was—offered Fred $50,000, which in those days was like a million today, to turn pro and go on tour with Bill Tilden and I forget who else, and play exhibition games all over the country. Until that time when Fred went pro, he won Wimbledon X times, several times. He won Forest Hills, and Australia. I’ve got a Fred Perry book up here that’s got all the information. So this guy, Hugh Strange, I think it was Hugh Strange, came in the office and said that Fred Perry was unemployed in the spring and fall, that he was a tennis professional at some country club down South in the winter. I forget what he was doing in the summer. And said that he was available and wanted something to do. So he asked me if I’d go with him over to see Cap'n Dick Smith. So Hugh Strange sold Cap'n Dick on this idea because Fred said he would come for expenses. He didn’t want any salary. Well, at that time the tennis coach was a chemistry professor—some professor. He just did it on the side. We didn’t have a full-time coach. Just think, he was one of the two or three most famous tennis players in the world. Don Budge [phonetic] was one, too. Tilden and Perry and Budge. He was willing to come to W&L and coach the tennis team. Fred is British, you know. His father was a member of Parliament, by the way. So Cap'n Dick said, "Yes, we’ll give him $200 for the season," I think. Anyway, Fred accepted and came on, and he had just divorced, I think. He was between wives. He stayed at the Dutch Inn. You know where it was, across from the Episcopal church there. You know, we mentioned it a while ago. He stayed there. He coached the tennis team in the fall and the spring. Then he came back and was doing it again after the war, I think. Fred went into service during the war, went into American service, not the British. Then came back and coached there again after the war. And it was just great to have this world-famous tennis player coaching there. To help get a little extra money, Fred would have somebody like Bill Tilden or other professionals would stop off, and we would book exhibition matches for which 27 they would get paid. I remember they came over here and played at Oak River. We went to the Country Club of Virginia in Richmond. He played an exhibition at the University of Virginia. We booked all his exhibition matches for him to increase his income. So Fred really got to love Washington and Lee, he really did. He got an honorary degree, you know. He had his honorary doctorate. Fred was given an honorary degree. I would write him up. He and I became the closest friends, really. I’ve got his book up there. He autographed it with this luxurious, complimentary message to me. We got to be buddies. When I worked in New York for the United Press, I remember Fred took me out to Forest Hills, and that’s where I witnessed his defeating Don Budge for the national professional championship or whatever it was. So when Mary Morris and I got married, we wanted to honeymoon—in those days, Fort Lauderdale—that was long ago—Fort Lauderdale was a delightful resort place in the summer. Now it has grown and boomed, you see, but it was just a charming little place. We decided that was where we were going on our honeymoon. Fred was the sports director and tennis professional at the Boca Raton Club in Florida. I called him, and he arranged our honeymoon, got us a little apartment in Fort Lauderdale. Then later on, after John Wilson came there, I think it was John Wilson came, and John is a tennis fan, and John was the one that arranged for Fred to get an honorary doctorate degree at Washington and Lee, and Fred was just delighted by it. He really was. We were just so distressed when he died last year. His wife, Bobbie, a lovely British lady, we still communicate. Bobbie spends half her time in England and half at their home in Florida. Fred—God, imagine having a world-famous tennis player there to coach an undergraduate tennis team. Warren: It’s quite remarkable. 28 Booth: It was, indeed. But I think the guy responsible for it was Hugh Strange. I wasn’t. All I did was take Hugh over to Cap'n Dick’s office and tell him what the proposition was. I was not responsible for Fred’s coming here. Warren: Another remarkable person who was there in that time period was Dr. Leyburn. He came in 1947. Do you remember when he arrived? Booth: Yes. Warren: What was the impression people had of him when he got there? Booth: Well, he was single, and we all wanted to—I had a girl picked out for him. It was Mary Monroe Penick. But we couldn’t get Jimmy—he was a confirmed celibate. He was just a charming, delightful guy. He was very talented. He was a good pianist. Did you know? Warren: I’ve heard that. Booth: Good pianist. I took him out to play golf at the Lexington Club one time, and he wasn’t much of a golfer. We had to borrow a set of clubs for him and all. I remember he got his hands blistered and ruined his tennis playing for about two weeks, because he had blisters on his hands. But he was just a fine, scholarly academician. I think he got along well with the faculty. He was just a superb person, he really was. I forget what his connection was. He didn’t go to Washington and Lee, but what was his connection there? I don’t know. Warren: Well, his middle name is Graham. I wondered if he weren’t the Graham family. Booth: I think that’s it. I think that was his connection. But he was, as I say, a born celibate. He called me in his office one day and said, "Lea." By the way, he was a very active member of the board of trustees at Mary Baldwin College. He was very active in the Presbyterian Church and at Mary Baldwin in those days. I don’t know if it’s still a Presbyterian school. He called me in and said, "Lea," he says, "we need somebody to teach journalism at Mary Baldwin. I’ve got you in mind." 29 I said, "I can’t teach journalism at Mary Baldwin and keep my job at Washington and Lee." He said, "No, all you do, you go about one afternoon a week." I said, "Is that all?" So sure enough, he got me employed at Mary Baldwin, and it enhanced my financial situation, and got me a job over there at Mary Baldwin teaching journalism. I’d go and I’d teach four hours, from four to six in the afternoon and from seven to nine at night, commuting, driving my little Plymouth back and forth to teach over there. So he got me a job over there, and I enjoyed it. It was fun. Nice girls. It was a course in fundamentals, you know, who, when, why, where, and what, the lead factors in any news story. He just is a grand guy that everybody liked. You’d see him at parties, like Mary Monroe Penick, who was a charming lady, lived—White Street, 104 White Street, I remember. Mary Monroe used to give these delightful parties out there. She was a single lady. She was the choir director and organist at the First Presbyterian Church. We used to see Jimmy out at all of her parties and all, but we couldn’t get him interested in getting married. But then he left. I don’t remember the circumstance. He left with a good image. I mean, there was nothing wrong. I don’t recall. Where did he go from Lexington? Warren: I think he retired to a farm somewhere. Booth: In Maryland? Warren: West Virginia, I think. Booth: I thought it was in Maryland. Warren: Maybe it was. I’m not positive. Booth: But having named the library, I wished they could have named it the Leyburn Library before he died, because he would have been so thrilled by that, and he deserved it. He was a superb dean. Everybody seemed to like him. 30 Warren: There is one other person whose name has been mentioned a lot today that I would love to hear about as a student. Can you tell me what Frank Parsons was like as a student? Booth: Well, really, I’m sorry. I’m devoted to him now. I just think he’s a grand guy. Frank and I have become really good buddies. After all, we gave him a Lynchburg Citation because of my friendship with him. But I don’t remember Frank as a student, barely. Vaguely I remember his being there, but I did not know him as an undergraduate. Warren: Oh, I thought you were implying that you had. Booth: No. Warren: I misunderstood you. Booth: No, I’m sorry. I didn’t. I mentioned that he’s a great guy, he really is. I think he was a real asset to that school. So is Jim Whitehead. I think both of them are. I hope you’ll agree with me. Warren: You know I do. Booth: But I feel so guilty that I don’t see the Whiteheads hardly at all anymore. He and I were the closest friends. You know, really I’m the guy that put Washington and Lee in touch with him. Warren: Well, I’ll tell him you said hello. I see him every once in a while. A big honor that came to you this past year was an induction in the Sports Hall of Fame. Booth: Well, they’re going to change the name of it now. It’s going to be called Hall of Shame. Hall of Shame. Warren: Tell me what that meant to you. Booth: Well, it meant a lot to me. Honestly, I mean this sincerely. I’m not being superficially modest, but I don’t think I deserved it. Well, it did say I led the baseball team in hitting one year and best batting average. I played baseball there for all the 31 years I was in school. But I think it was given to me, I believe, because of my work in publicity, as the publicity director over there. That’s the only reason I can think of. There was a citation that tells about it. But I didn’t think I deserved it. I really don’t. I was flattered. Charley McDowell came down and presented me. Were you there? Warren: No. Booth: Charley Mac was my presenter. That was fun. His talk about Lea Booth was utterly charming. I’ve got a recording of it here. I can’t play it. Mary Morris has to run these things. She’ll go down there and get it and play it for you. It was just delightful. I was allowed two student assistants. I had two student assistants when I was running the news bureau, and I hired Charley Mac to work in the office. That’s how we got to know him. After he went on up to Columbia and did some graduate work at Columbia, he came back and wanted a job on the Richmond Times-Dispatch, I had good connections with the Times-Dispatch. The managing editor, whose name I can’t remember now, was a buddy of mine. I called him up and told him about Charley Mac and I said, "He worked in my office. He’s going to be a super journalist, and he wants to go to work on the Times-Dispatch." This guy says, "Send him on down here. We’ll interview him." So he went to Richmond. After he got back, I called him up. After he got back I called up my Richmond buddy—what the hell was his name—the managing editor of the Times-Dispatch. I called him up, and he said, "We can’t hire that youngster. He’s too brash." He said, "He’ll get the newspaper—he’ll get us in trouble." I said, "What?" I don’t know what kind of interview Charley had. But I said, "All right. If you don’t, he’s going to work for the Washington Post, and he’s going to beat your brains out. He’ll scoop you on all the stories. He’ll beat your brains out." I argued with him about it. Of course, Charley Mac, to this day, gives me all the credit for starting him on his career here, you see. 32 What was the question you asked me? I’m telling you more than you wanted to know. Warren: No, you’re not. No, you’re not. We’ve twisted around. I was asking you about the Sports Hall of Fame. Booth: Oh, yes. I mean this. Really, I don’t think I deserved it as much as the other people who’ve gotten it. I have been the presenter three times. Cap'n Dick Smith, they asked me to be his presenter when he was inducted posthumously. And Bob Spessard, the All-American basketball player, they asked me to do him. And Dick Boisseau. I showed you Boisseau [unclear]. I did the presenting. I think of those people being in there, and they’re putting me in there with them, I’m not in their class. I’m really not. I just don’t—I don’t know. Anyway, I’m delighted. I’m flattered to death by it, but I just don’t think I’m in the class with the ones that I have been with. Now, some of the others they’ve put in there in recent years, I don’t know how they’ve gotten in there. I think they deserve it less than I do. I’m not going to call their names. But when I think of the early ones—Fred Perry ought to be in there, you know. He really should. There’s somebody else. Oh, yes, we’re working on that. Howard Dobbins. I promised I was going to try to help him get nominated for it, and I’ve got—damn, I’d better get busy about it. I was on the committee that started that thing. Frank Parsons arranged that. Frank had them put me on the Hall of Fame Committee. I protested so much the name of it, that I think it made everybody mad and they kicked me off. I haven’t been on it in years. But they called it Athletic Hall of Fame, and I cussed Mike Walsh about that the other day. Mike is a grand guy. I really like him. Do you know him? Warren: Not really. Booth: Well, he’s a superb fellow, he really is. He needles me about this. But how can there be an athletic hall? The term "athletic," you look it up in the dictionary, you can’t use that as an adjective for Hall of Fame. It ought to be Sports Hall of Fame, or 33 Athletics’, plural, Hall of Fame, the Hall of Fame for those engaged in athletics, but not those who are engaged in "athletic," singular. There’s no such thing as an athletic hall. See my point? Warren: Yes, I do. Booth: It ought to be plural or else call it Sports Hall of Fame. I think they ought to call it Sports Hall of Fame. Warren: It makes sense to me. Booth: You’ll tell them. Warren: I will. I will. I’ll pass it on. There’s one question I like to ask everybody who went to Washington and Lee, and I get a lot of different kinds of answers on it. What did the Honor System mean to you? Booth: Everything. We had no such thing as an Honor System in high school, and we were indoctrinated in the Honor System at Washington and Lee, and it was just superb. But, honestly, I never saw anybody cheat. I never heard of anybody cheating or robbing or anything when I was in school. I thought it worked perfectly. I really think it was one of the prime assets of that institution, was to have a workable, effective Honor System. I just think it’s great. I don’t know if it’s still as effective now as it was in those days. I have no idea. But we used to have these meetings for the freshmen, you know, lecturing to us on the Honor System and what it meant and how you had to abide by it. We had to sign pledges on all of our papers that we turned in, on any tests you took, any essay you wrote, "I pledge on my honor that I have received no help." There were some violations when I was in school, but very few. And they’d get kicked out. They would be expelled. I think it’s a great asset to that institution. I may be in the minority. I don’t know. Warren: Oh, no. No, I think it’s something that’s very widely cherished. Booth: Well, it meant a lot to me. I’d never experienced anything like that before. And who has, coming out of a public high school? We didn’t have anything like an Honor 34 System. I don’t remember whether I cheated in high school or not, but I damn sure did not cheat in college. I remember once when I wrote a theme, had to write a theme in Dean Gilliam’s English class about something, and plagiarized a part of it out of something, but I went to him and told him that I’d done it, so I got by with it. I just think it’s a marvelous thing, I really do. I wonder how the faculty feels about it. Warren: Firm believers. Firm believers. Booth: Great. Warren: I see my light flashing, and I have one more question, so I’m going to quickly pop in one more tape. Okay? [End of recording] 35