Hunt interview
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[Begin Tape 1, Side 2]
Warren: I’ve interviewed two people from 1974, both members of the class of 1974, and
I did them several months apart, and it wasn’t until sometime after I’d done both
interviews that I realized that these two people were from the same class, because it was
like they were from two different worlds. And there’s no other time period that I’ve had
that experience as I’ve done interviews. Most people and people from your father’s time
all seem to have had similar experience, but when you were there, it seems like there
were the fraternity people and the non-fraternity people, and it sounded like you were
in two different places. Did you experience that?
Hunt: Oh, very much so. Washington and Lee was a very diverse—you’re probably
well aware how geographically diverse it was at that time, and still is, for the most part.
In fact, I remember Dean Gilliam telling me that a few years before I got there, right
before he had retired, he had gotten a call from Dartmouth one year, saying, "Well, we
did a special study of geographic diversity of major academic colleges, and we expected
to win, but I guess we’re duty bound to call you up and tell you we came in second, and
you guys won." So you had all types. We had guys who were so far right wing, they
were scary. I mean, John Birch was liberal, in their view. We had guys who were so far
out on the left-wing fringe, you know, and everybody kind of fit together. There was a
pretty open attitude, "Hey, nobody expects you to hold to a company line around here.
So that’s fine. Be what you want to be."

         I ran for University Council a couple of times, so that gave me a chance to start
to—I’d met a lot of people at Washington and Lee, but to have a reason to go out and
visit with guys who I hadn’t necessarily gotten to know, maybe fellows who were over
in Davis Hall and fellows who were back over in other areas. At that time, I think, what
was it, Preston House, we even had some guys over there. And, you know, there were a
lot of guys there, their approach was different. But I think one thing that was interesting
is that the basic right of people to be different was pretty well respected. You know,

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people might feel they’re not comfortable bumming around with you because you’re
different, but I don’t think there was really a feeling of people looking down on other
people. Maybe that was just a part of the way the mid ’70s was.

         But you’re right. I think there probably was a lot of difference between those
guys who were in fraternities and those guys who were not, because the guys who were
not probably were leaning more heavily on a smaller group of close friends, and guys
who were in a fraternity maybe spread it out a little bit, although even within
fraternities you had your close friendships and your guys who—sure, they’re
acquaintances in the fraternity but you didn’t go out of your way to spend time with
them. You just weren’t the same type of guys.

         One of the nice things about my fraternity was diversity. We had some of the
hardest partiers in the university, yet we also had some guys who were academic
whizzes. It was quite a diverse group. In fact, I remember our pledge class came in, and
they had a tradition. Pledges ate in the fraternity house one night a week, and after the
first-semester grades came out, they had guys up on tables giving their grades—or I
think in mid-semester, I think they gave out—at that time, they gave out a mid-
semester grade or something, an indication, nothing official. They had guys standing up
on tables giving their grades. Well, you know, the guy who had a point-five got a
standing ovation, and the guys would point out, "You’re ruining our reputation here. A
lot of you guys are coming in with too high an academic standing." And I think of, like,
sixteen fraternities, we went from a period—in a year from being number fourteen
academically to being number two, behind the "lamb chops." Lambda Chi was
traditionally the number-one fraternity. In fact, I think we passed the Lambda Chi’s one
semester while I was there and came in number one academically, and it sure wasn’t
because we were trying to recruit academic whizzes. We had some fellows, though,
who certainly brought up the average. And that was fun. You had different types of

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guys. You had guys who were wild as could be, and you had fellows that you could
trust on your life, and that was interesting.

         Washington and Lee is a place where I really enjoyed and appreciated being
around different types of people, because I’d never been around people from the
Northeast before I got to Washington and Lee. A lot of the people I played football with
were from the Northeast, and I got to know them a little bit, and while a lot of them
were really nice guys, you start to realize there’s a different culture here, and they treat
people differently. When they look at somebody who’s not part of their group, it’s
different. And that was probably the first time I’d been around people from the Deep
South much. That’s very different. The first time I’d been around people from the
Midwest. Had some good friends from California, and that’s a different experience as
well. That’s something I don’t think I’d have gotten many other places.
Warren: One of the things that was still fairly new when you arrived was having black
students on campus.
Hunt: Yeah. That was one part of campus that, while I was there, never meshed very
well, and I think that was really unfortunate. I think there were—this is probably not
very politic of me to say, but I think there probably was something of an inferiority
complex. I mean, some of the things that the black student group would do, you’d look
at it and say, "Why is this a big deal to them unless they’re sitting around here worried
about being inferior, and nobody around here is looking down on them, so why are
they looking down on themselves?"

         One thing that I think was a problem, and I personally suspect if you went back
and looked at the records, it would be true, but at that time, I’m well aware that Ivy
League schools and everywhere else were going well out of their way to recruit black
students, and I think some of the black students at Washington and Lee, I always got
the impression, had a hard time academically, and I got the impression they’d been
recruited in even though it was going to be a tough row for them to handle the

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academic standards. That was not true of all the black students. I know of one in
freshman year that, quite frankly, I think he was sharp as a whip, and I think it was a
problem for him because instead of being able—when he was in the freshman dorms, it
was great. He got along well with everybody, but I think it was a challenge for him
because I think he felt the pressure to be part of the Student Association of Black Unity.
Warren: Who was that?
Hunt: Lacy McClarty. I believe that’s the last name, real good guy.
Warren: I don’t know him.
Hunt: And I didn’t know him as well because he wasn’t in my dorm section. He was in
the dorm section of some fraternity brothers of mine, so I spent some time around him
and had occasion to ask about him as well, and everybody I know spoke highly of him.
Warren: Did he stay all four years?
Hunt: You know, I’m not sure. I lost touch with Lacy. I’m not sure whether he did.
Warren: I haven’t heard that name. I’ve interviewed several of those early black
students.
Hunt: I think it was McClarty. I’d have to go back and look at a yearbook to be sure.
Warren: No. I can double-check that. One last question, and it’s just something I’m
curious about. Did you know Doug Harwood?
Hunt: No. Doug Harwood. What class was he?
Warren: I believe ’75.
Hunt: I don’t believe so. I’d probably be embarrassed when I saw the picture. I’d
probably recognize him, but the name doesn’t ring a bell.
Warren: Well, he would have been one of those alternative people. He definitely would
not have been a fraternity person.
Hunt: Well, you know, odds are I did know him, because, quite frankly, one of the
great things about Washington and Lee, by the time you finished your freshman year,
you knew on a first-name basis 80 percent of the freshman class, I mean, unless you

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were a hermit. And that was wonderful. The unfortunate part is you develop friends
from other classes, if you were into a fraternity, you didn’t get to see some of these guys
nearly as much. But he doesn’t ring a bell.
Warren: You know, I didn’t ask you the most basic question. Usually it’s my first
question, but we’ll make it my last question. Why did you go to Washington and Lee?
Hunt: My junior year, when I talked to a recruiter there, or I guess it was my senior
year, fall semester, I was so excited about it I was ready to quit football and just go to
college if they’d have taken me. Sounded great. But I kind of changed my mind as I
went along, and I think I went to Washington and Lee for two reasons. Number one, it
was far, far away from home. I knew I’d never have to worry about my parents
dropping in on me unexpected, and it was going to be new and different. I didn’t have
anything at high school tying me down, so I wanted to go somewhere where I could be
doing different and my past was irrelevant.

         But number two, its broad curriculum and academic reputation. I didn’t know
what I wanted to major in, but I knew that if I went to Washington and Lee, if I wanted
to transfer, I could go pretty well anywhere I wanted. If I stayed, I had a lot of
flexibility, which turned out to be very important to me, because, I don’t know how
many people do this, but I filed as a triple major my sophomore year because I had no
idea of what—I still wasn’t sure what I wanted to major in, and I ended up majoring in
the least likely of my triple major. I was a political science major, and the reason why
was because when I looked at the course requirements, it required courses in history,
economics, politics, business administration. I basically said, "I’ve got to get this major
even if I do a double major because I only have to take about two extra courses beyond
what I plan to take anyway," and I don’t regret the decision. It was a good one.
HERB HUNT: [Unclear]?

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Hunt: We had five I think, and that was the high-water mark for—that was the most
that had been up there, I think, in quite a while from my home high school, and we had
about twelve, I think, from Dallas. There were several from Saint Mark’s, etc.
HERB HUNT: Five boys from one high school.
Warren: Five boys from one high school.
HERB HUNT: One public high school.
Warren: That’s impressive.
Hunt: Since that time, I know they’ve had years when I think they had double figures
from Highland Park a few years—about seven, eight years ago.
Warren: We have a large Texas contingent.
Hunt: Well, but I mean double figures in the freshman class. It was pretty hard to
believe, and, I know, it was the year before last year, when I was back for my reunion, I
believe you all ended up with flat zero, or at least at that time it was zero. That might
have changed, and there may have been somebody who went there, which was hard for
me to imagine.
Warren: Well, I have a feeling we could keep going all afternoon. This is wonderful,
but I’m not sure whether your father has that much patience.
Hunt: Well, you’ve got me pretty much talked out, though.
Warren: Well, thank you, Doug. This has been marvelous, because I need to talk to
people from your time period. You know, those old guys are great, but you young guys
have something to say, too, and you need to be represented. Thank you.
[End of interview]

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