Lewis interview

[Begin Tape 1, Side 2]
Sydney Lewis: It was the Southern schools, to my information anyway, that really
have always been the big drinkers, big drinking schools, so to speak.
Frances Lewis: I would ask Sydney when he would sit in that board room with the
Washington and Lee board, and I couldn't believe that these men—because they were
all men at that time, except for me—that they were these drunks of fifty years ago. I

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said how did you all turn out—as I said, Sydney never drank. He still doesn't drink.
How did they all turn out so well?
Sydney Lewis: Well, it was just a day in their life that they got over real quickly, that's
all.
Warren: I'm glad you brought that up, because the reason I want you to be here and be
part of this conversation, besides hearing about going to dances, which I love, and
getting the female point of view. It's hard to get the female point of view around here.
Frances Lewis: It is.
Warren: But you were the first really significant woman on the board, very active
woman on the board, from what I hear.
Frances Smith: Was I the first woman on the board?
Warren: No, you weren't the first woman.
Sydney Lewis: Miss duPont was.
Warren: You were the first one who really did something here. So tell me what it was
like to walk into this male bastion.
Frances Lewis: They were all gentlemen. Is that right?
Sydney Lewis: Yeah.
Frances Lewis: Yeah, they were all gentlemen. This board was very impressive. The
men were really, they did not run off at the mouth. They asked piercing questions. I
was really impressed, because I'd been on many boards, and this one really impressed
me. Am I correct?
Sydney Lewis: Yeah.
Frances Lewis: In fact, I almost died when I found out that I was going to be involved
in this decision as to whether they were going coed or not. I came back from that first
board meeting and I said I would never have gotten involved had I known that this
decision was coming up. But it was really amazing to me, and I've told this story many

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times. They asked question after question and so forth and so on, and I never knew ’til
the vote came what was anybody's opinion. Most of them were lawyers. Is that right?
Sydney Lewis: Yeah.
Frances Lewis: They were very practiced at getting the information they wanted
without revealing anything. So that was the big decision we made at that time.
Warren: Were you the only woman on the board at that time?
Frances Lewis: I was the only woman on the board, and I was worried to death that I
would be the only vote—I'm not very brave, and I was going, "What will I do if they
all—but as I know you know, the vote was unanimous. That's not a secret, is it?
Sydney Lewis: No.
Frances Lewis: No. I was very relieved, because I could just see me being a lone
dissenter on the other side.
Warren: Tell me about being there and that whole process. It was a long, involved
process to get to that day. What was that like?
Sydney Lewis: Well, let me tell you this. I was on the board twelve years before
Frances joined the board as my term was up, and I don't believe that a single year
passed, maybe one or two passed, that the issue of coeducation did not come up. It
came up constantly. It would come up this year, and the vote was that the student body
had had a vote—I mean, this is just an example—and they wanted coeducation, and
what should we do about it, and we did nothing. The next year, it came up the student
body doesn't want coeducation, what should we do about it, and we did nothing. So
over that twelve-year period, without exception, maybe a couple years, we faced this
question every single year, and every single year we turned the proposition down.

         Then Frances got on the board, and her first year, when considering coeducation,
they accepted it.
Warren: Are you giving her all the credit here? Or the blame?

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Sydney Lewis: What I was trying to point out, it wasn't a new issue. It was being
constantly—what's the word—looked at. There's a better word than that. So I think the
board had heard all the pros and all the cons for a long time. When we were told, I
know the last couple of years I started hearing when I was on the board, before Frances
got on the board, that the quality of our student body was not keeping pace, and one of
the only ways we were going to keep pace, or so the argument went, was to go
coeducation and bring coeds in. They all had this exit poll every year of the students
who had been accepted for admission and who had not accepted the invitation for
admission and asked, "Why didn't you come? You were accepted." It was almost
unanimous among those who didn't come that they didn't come because Washington
and Lee was a single-sex school. They knew Washington and Lee was a single-sex
school before they applied, but obviously some of the other schools to whom they
applied were coeducational, and they were accepted at those schools, so that's where
they went.
Frances Lewis: I think that many people on that board resisted the idea. You had to
prove to them that the applicant pool was dragging the university down.
Sydney Lewis: That's right.
Frances Lewis: The really didn't want to believe that.
Sydney Lewis: That's right. It was just amazing what happened when W&L became
coed. The quality of the student just zoomed.
Frances Lewis: You know, I had to stop myself today. We were discussing this at the
table, and I realized that one of the participant's—this was at lunch—son was here at the
time that that decision was made.
Sydney Lewis: Yes, he had two sons.
Frances Lewis: Right. And I said, "Lord, am I saying his son did not have the right
quality?" In other words, I had to shut myself off. I was wondering whether I was
saying anything wrong.

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Warren: It's a very awkward thing to talk about.
Frances Lewis: It is.
Warren: Because what you're saying, I hear over and over again, that the quality of the
student body had gone down. And yet those are some of our alumni, and we have to
respect that.
Sydney Lewis: That's right.
Warren: And it is awkward.
Frances Lewis: And then there's the other—when you talk about alumni—there was
the other thing. Some men, when they were talking on the other side, would say things
like, "Think of Jack Warner, who probably never made over a C in his life and is a very
successful—
Sydney Lewis: That's right, highly successful man.
Frances Lewis: Highly successful. "So maybe C students is what we need around
here," so forth and so on. This would go on. They really did resist it. But I think in the
end, they were smart people. Is that right?
Sydney Lewis: Oh, sure.
Frances Lewis: And I don't know, despite the vote, many of them were still unhappy.
Sydney Lewis: Oh, yeah, I think so.
Frances Lewis: But they knew they had to do it. And, of course, things have turned
around here just marvelously.

         The other thing is, I remember this one remark, "Professors get disheartened
when their students are not apt." I remember one of the men said to me, "I should
imagine they would consider it a challenge to teach a C student and make a success of
him."

         I said, "I doubt that that is the ideal of a person who goes into the field."
Sydney Lewis: That certainly isn't true with your son.

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Frances Lewis: No. He wants bright students. I'm trying to think, how many years did
we discuss this? It wasn't protracted forever. They scheduled the meetings.
Sydney Lewis: No, because as I said, when I got off the board, I think it was the next
year or at least maybe the second year, so maybe two years at the most.
Warren: And there was a change of administration there.
Sydney Lewis: John Wilson came.
Frances Lewis: Yes, that's when John Wilson came in.
Sydney Lewis: Everybody who was opposed to coeducation blamed John Wilson, so
he was a good patsy for all of these people.
Warren: Do you think that it would have happened if Bob Huntley had stayed?
Sydney Lewis: Yeah.
Frances Lewis: I don't.
Sydney Lewis: Yes, I think it would have happened. Oh, no, if the board had wanted
it, I don't think Bob would have resisted.
Frances Lewis: The president of the board at that time was—you know, he's here also
this weekend.
Sydney Lewis: Jim Ballengee.
Frances Lewis: Jim Ballengee, and Jim Ballengee was all for it.
Sydney Lewis: Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I don't think Bob would have opposed it.
Frances Lewis: I can't remember now who—
Sydney Lewis: No, because I remember the first time I was on the board when this
came up. Literally, I could see what was going on. It was completely, "Let's not spend
any time on this issue." I didn't say a word, because it was my first year on the board.
Bob came to me afterwards and he said, "Sydney, what do you feel about this issue?
You didn't even open your mouth."

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         I said, "I decided that if my mouth was going to contain any ammunition, there
wasn't any sense wasting it at this particular meeting, because no one even wanted to
talk about it."

         So I think he would have, if the board had wanted it. Maybe he personally might
have resisted it a little bit, but he certainly wouldn't have fought against it, I don't think.
Frances Lewis: Who?
Sydney Lewis: Bob.
Frances Lewis: Oh, Bob. I can't imagine that he would have introduced—
Sydney Lewis: He wouldn't have led the charge the way John Wilson did.
Frances Lewis: Right.
Sydney Lewis: Well, John was very affirmative about it, yes.
Frances Lewis: And they always say, if you're going to get anything done, you have to
do it at the beginning of your new position, whether it's in academia or in business.
You get in and you do it right then. Is that right?
Sydney Lewis: Oh, sure.
Frances Lewis: But I keep thinking of, again, Jack—
Sydney Lewis: Warner?
Frances Lewis: Warner.
Sydney Lewis: Who was a classmate of mine.
Frances Lewis: I'm sure people have talked about Jack Warner, who was adamantly
against it. In fact, he almost had a rift with the school, or did have a rift. Not a year or
eighteen months had gone by than he sent in a letter in favor of some young woman.
Sydney Lewis: Oh, yeah.
Frances Lewis: Whom they had to refuse.
Sydney Lewis: That's right. I got a call from Jack one day. This is going to be six or
seven years ago. I said, "Oh, Jack, it's good to hear from you. What's on your mind?"

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         He said, "I'm really upset, and I don't know who to go to other than you, because
you can get anything done. Washington and Lee won."

         I said, "What are you talking about?" I couldn't imagine what he was talking
about.

         He said, "Well, "Bear" Bryant (you know who "Bear" Bryant is? A football coach,
former football coach at Alabama), his granddaughter wants to get into Washington
and Lee, and they have turned her down."

         I said, "Why did they turn her down, Jack? What's wrong?"
         He said, "I don't know what's wrong. I've spoken to John Wilson, I've spoken to
Farris, I've spoken to two or three other people, dean of admissions, etc., etc., and I can't
get a straight answer. She's like number three in her class at this girls’ prep school,
whatever it was, a terrific young lady, cheerleader, everything, etc."
         I said, "Well, Jack, I know I can't do anything about it, but I will certainly call
John and ask him what's going on here."
         So I called John, and John said, "Sydney, I've been waiting for your call," because
he knew I was friendly with Jack. He said, "We did everything in the world that we
could to convince ourselves that we should take this young lady, but she wouldn't last a
week here. She's at this particular school, and, true, she's way up in her class, but she
has no study habits. She just couldn't handle anything at W&L, and the worst thing we
can do is bring her in here and kick her out. We tried to tell that to Jack, and he won't
listen. I just don't know what else to do."
         I said, "Okay, don't you do anything. I'll call Jack."
         And so I called him and I told him exactly what John had told me and what Bill
what's his name, the dean of admissions.
Frances Lewis: Hartog.
Sydney Lewis: Bill Hartog had told me and Farris had told me, and he said, "Oh, they
all say the same thing. You're as bad as the rest of them."

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         I said, "Okay, Jack. Let's go to the next topic." He was really upset.
         But here was a guy who did everything that he could, beyond shooting
somebody, of trying to keep coeducation away from Washington and Lee, and here he
is fighting for a young lady to be able to get in.
Frances Lewis: You know, during the last fund-raising, not this one but the last one,
you have some stories about you and Jack flying around to see this pigeon and that.
Sydney Lewis: Oh, yeah, we flew all over.
Frances Lewis: When was this?
Sydney Lewis: This was in the 1970s. Jack and I took assignments of people to solicit
in various communities. Jack had a jet airplane at that time, and he would pick me up
or I would meet him in Tuscaloosa or what have you, and we'd fly all over the Southern
United States asking for money, and we were quite successful. That was the first
successful W&L capital campaign that we had, I think. That one was about $75 million.
Well, the last one was about $150, I think, wasn't it, something like that.
Frances Lewis: They were the two political extremes. Jack is to the right of Genghis
Khan.
Sydney Lewis: That's right. I'll never forget when I joined that Washington and Lee
board, my first board meeting was being held in Tuscaloosa, which is Jack's home.
When we got in there, Jack met us at the airport and said, "I want to speak to you," very
seriously.
         I said, "Sure. Let's talk."
         He said, "No. I've got another car for the rest of the people." I think it was you
and Bob Huntley and somebody else there, I forget. "Let's you and I go in my car."
         I couldn't imagine what this man [unclear], because he was very serious. We get
in the car and we drive out. We were going to where we were going to be staying. Jack
had this big estate with a big home on it, where the W&L board was going to stay.
Anyway, we stop at a fast food joint to have a cup of coffee, and we're sitting down, like

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a McDonald's or somewhere, across the table, and he looks at me straight in the eye and
he says, "You know, Sydney, you and I are of different political persuasions."

         I said, "Yes, probably so, Jack. I don't know, but I guess that you would be a little
bit on the right, and maybe I'm a little bit on the left, I don't know. But so what?"

         He said, "Well, I just want to tell you that in spite of our political differences, we
have one thing in common, and that one thing is Washington and Lee, and we will
always agree on what's best for Washington and Lee."

         I said, "Let's shake on that one." But he was that sort of person. He was
something else again. He still is. I talk to him every now and then on the phone, ask
him to give more money to the school. Sometimes I'm successful and sometimes I'm
not.
Frances Lewis: The closest thing to the old-time Washington and Lee house party was
the board meeting in Tuscaloosa, which took me back a thousand years. They had two
formal balls, and everybody brought a suitcase of clothing. I remember that. It was
Alabama. It's the last—
Sydney Lewis: Jack is sort of the last—what would you call it? Jack's one of the last of
the—what were they called?
Frances Lewis: Big-time spenders.
Sydney Lewis: No, not big-time spender. He's a big-time spender, but he's the last of
the—who were the guys who were the railroad magnates and the oil magnates? What
did they call them? There's a word for them. I forget.
Frances Lewis: I'll think of it. And he collects that stuff. He collects late 19th century.
Sydney Lewis: And early 20th century.
Frances Lewis: What do you call them? Well, forget it. It'll come to me.
Sydney Lewis: I hope you get the opportunity to interview him, because he's a—
Warren: I'm planning to go down there.
Sydney Lewis: Yeah, because he really is, he's quite an interesting character.

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Warren: Tuscaloosa is on my list.
Sydney Lewis: And he is the king of Tuscaloosa. I mean, they own paper mills down
there. Jack has been very kind to the University of Alabama, which the main campus is
in Tuscaloosa, as he has been kind to Washington and Lee.
Warren: You were talking about a good party in Tuscaloosa. When I moved here in
1977, all anybody was talking about was the great party that had just happened.
Frances Lewis: The law school.
Warren: Tell me how did Lewis Hall come to be. How did your involvement start with
Lewis Hall?
Sydney Lewis: I suppose it started as follows. All of a sudden my company, my
business, our business, became a very thriving institution, and we were in a position
where we had resources that we could give away.
Frances Lewis: It became a public institution.
Sydney Lewis: We had become a public business. I called—I'm just trying to think
whether I called or wrote. I called two institutions in which we had an interest. One
was Washington and Lee, and the other was the Virginia Museum. I told them I had
funds that I wanted to give them, and they should tell me what their priorities were to
see if we had any interest in any of these priorities so that we could help to fund them.

         The rector of Washington and Lee, who lived in Richmond, Jack Thomas, called
on me, and the director of the Virginia Museum, of course which is in Richmond, called
on us. The rector said, "Won't you please go up to Lexington, because we're now in the
midst of a capital fund campaign and you can literally see what we're trying to do. Jim
Whitehead will be in Lexington, and he will help you and show you around the various
elements of the capital campaign."

         So anyway, we went to Lexington and met with Jim, and the first thing he
showed us, which they wanted to fund and spruce up, etc., what's that little estate out
on Route 60 just as you come into town from the east?

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Warren: Col Alto?
Sydney Lewis: Col Alto. Col Alto was on the agenda, and he said, "Would you be
interested, maybe, in funding the restoration of this, etc., etc.?"

         We said, "We don't think so. That's not what we would want our money to be
spent for."

         Remember, at the time I told him—he said, "Could you tell us how much money
you want to give us?"

         I said, "We're willing to give you $100,000 to start with."
         He said, "Fine."
         He took us over to, I don't know where it was, some building, I forget now, but
showed us the various elements of the campaign, what they were going to build and
what they hoped to build, etc., what they hoped to restore and renovate, etc., etc. They
came to the law school, and Jim knew that I had been at the law school. So we looked at
it, etc., etc., and he said, "Well, you know, for $100,000 you could develop the library, or
for $100,000 you could do this." I forget the things. Do you remember?
Frances Lewis: No, I don't remember.
Sydney Lewis: I really don't remember at all. So I said, "Jim, what is the budget for the
law school?"
         He said, "$6 million."
         We said, "We'll take the law school." It was just that simple.
         Then Bob Huntley got into the act and said they wanted to develop a law center
in addition to the law school, so we funded the additional, which was $2 million, so we
funded the law center, also. So that's the way it happened. It was very quick and very
pleasant, without any fanfare. Did I tell the story right?
Frances Lewis: You said 6 and 2. Where did the other came—it was 9 to start.
Sydney Lewis: Yeah, it was 9 to start. It was 7 and 2, whatever.
Frances Lewis: 7 and 2, probably.

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Sydney Lewis: Yes, it was 9. What was the other million for? You're right, it was 9
million to start. Talk about million like they're pennies, right? But that's the way it
happened.
Frances Lewis: It was very fast.
Sydney Lewis: It was very fast, and it just sort of hit us where we wanted to be, I
suppose. But we had never thought of that, because I didn't even know they were
planning a law school.
Frances Lewis: You didn't even know they were having a campaign.
Sydney Lewis: That's right, I didn't. No, I didn't. We didn't know there was a
campaign on. I'd just written out of the blue.
Frances Lewis: I've heard this. When you have a campaign of that size, you never
know who's going to come forth that you never thought about. And what's his name
this last time, the Lenfest. It was a similar thing, wasn't it? I don't think he was at the
top. His name wouldn't pop out if you were automatically thinking of—
Sydney Lewis: Or Ernie Williams, either one. No, that's true that always with these big
capital fund campaigns, the people that you expect to do things never do do them. It's
always the surprises that do them.
Frances Lewis: Don't you remember, you and Jack used to go down to see the Hunt,
what's his name, Hunt?
Sydney Lewis: Yeah, the Hunt brothers down in Dallas.
Frances Lewis: Well, when they still had their money.
Sydney Lewis: That's right. We really knocked on that door maybe five or six times,
and then, of course, what happened, they lost everything. We tried to get it when they
had it, but we couldn't get it.
Warren: Did you get involved in the planning of the building?
Frances Lewis: Not at all.
Sydney Lewis: Not really.

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Frances Lewis: We didn't, did we?
Sydney Lewis: No. That's one thing we've been the same with anything we've become
involved in. I'll give you the money, but you do it. I mean, really it's—
Frances Lewis: The only thing you got involved in—
Sydney Lewis: Was?
Frances Lewis: You had some say, through an intermediary, on the architect for the
wing at the Virginia Museum.
Sydney Lewis: Oh, yeah. Paul Mellon and I did that together.
Frances Lewis: Yeah. But that's the only time you ever—
Sydney Lewis: The Virginia Museum came to Paul Mellon and me and said, "Look,
you guys are putting up the money for this wing. Why don't you select the architect?"
We had been very pleased with an architect who had just finished a building, a new
office building for us. So when I sat down and talked to Paul about who we should
interview, I told him that we had been very satisfied with this one architect who had
worked with us on a new building, and he said, "Well, let's talk to him first." Our
agreement was that we'd talk to him and then we'd talk to an architect designated by
Paul.

         So we talked to this architect, called him down to Washington to Paul Mellon's
office there at the National Gallery. A couple of weeks later I was talking to Paul. I
said, "Maybe it's time we should talk to someone you designate."

         He said, "No, I'd rather talk to your architect again."
         I said, "Fine."
         So we called him. He came back down, and we agreed that he should be the one
to do it. So built us a terrific wing, he designed a terrific wing for us, so everybody was
happy. But you're right, that's the only time.
Frances Lewis: That's the only time you ever became involved.

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Warren: There was a terrific party. I've seen the pictures. What are your memories of
the dedication of Lewis Hall, of the party?
Sydney Lewis: All I remember was, it was outside at Wilson Stadium.
Frances Lewis: I remember Elizabeth Taylor was there.
Sydney Lewis: Yeah, I remember Elizabeth was there.
Frances Lewis: She came with the other John Warner.
Sydney Lewis: That's right. And for someone who didn't drink, I must say that it
wasn't so bad. Of course, you know they were drinking Scotch all over the place. They
had barrels of Scotch there that had been brought in. Was that due to Bob Huntley?
Bob had prevailed upon somebody. And there were very nice souvenirs.
Frances Lewis: I still have three bottles.
Sydney Lewis: Do you? Three bottles of that Scotch? And how about the tin cups?
Frances Lewis: And the tin cups, that's right. I don't remember what happened after
that, though. What happened?
Sydney Lewis: I don't remember. I think that was it. I don't think there was any—
Warren: That's what I've seen the pictures of. I've seen hundreds of cups.
Frances Lewis: That's right.
Sydney Lewis: I don't think there was any party or anything afterwards. I think the
party was right there on Wilson Field.
Frances Lewis: Yeah, right.
Sydney Lewis: I think that was it.
Frances Lewis: When was that? Do you remember the year?
Sydney Lewis: When was that? What was that year?
Warren: I think it was '76 or '77, because I moved here in '77.
Frances Lewis: And it was built already.
Warren: Well, you know, I'm connecting it up with Sally Mann’s Lewis Law Portfolio.
Frances Lewis: That's right.

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Warren: She was working on that. But I'm not sure whether the building was—I'm not
sure whether I was here when the party happened or it had just happened. I kind of
think maybe I was here. It was either '76 or '77.
Frances Lewis: That's right, I forgot about her portfolio.
Warren: Now, I found all these pictures of the dedication, and in one of the pictures—
and I must say, you are so much prettier in person than the pictures. You're somebody
who doesn't photograph as well as you are in person. But anyway, there's this picture
of you both with Lewis Powell, and he's from Richmond, too, right?
Frances Lewis: Right.
Warren: Is he somebody you know very well?
Sydney Lewis: Yes. Well, I mean, Lewis has been in Washington, of course, for many
years, and since he went to the Supreme Court, he's still—in fact, somebody was telling
me—he kept his home in Richmond, but he lived in Washington for many years, even
after he left the court. But someone was saying the other day that they think he's
moved back to Richmond. I think Judge Marries [phonetic] was telling us that. I
haven't seen him in—
Frances Lewis: A long time.
Sydney Lewis: It's been a long time.
Frances Lewis: We came down for some colloquium here, is when I saw—
Sydney Lewis: You saw him here at the dedication of the archives.
Frances Lewis: Right. Weren't you here?
Sydney Lewis: No, I wasn't here. I was at home in bed. That's where you saw him. I
didn't see him.
Frances Lewis: Gosh, '70—I can't believe. That's almost twenty years ago. It's a long
time.
Warren: Yeah, I think it was. It is hard to believe, isn't it?
Warren: When you walk through Lewis Hall now, how does it feel?

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Sydney Lewis: It feels good, because it's a good building.
Frances Lewis: Yeah, it is a good building.
Sydney Lewis: It really is. You know, that's where the alumni college, every time
we've been here, has been held, there in the moot court room.
Frances Lewis: The only thing not good about it—
Sydney Lewis: Is?
Frances Lewis: I can say it entre nous, is Bob Huntley and the dean of the law school—
Sydney Lewis: Now or then?
Frances Lewis: Then.
Sydney Lewis: Dean Steinheimer.
Frances Lewis: Yeah, Dean Steinheimer decided to save money and they would pick
out the furniture.
Sydney Lewis: That's right. Well, the seats in the moot court aren't bad.
Frances Lewis: No, that was not part of it. I mean the furniture outside. The moot
court is beautiful. I think that's a terrific room. But the rest of the furniture could stand
a slight—
Sydney Lewis: Improvement.
Frances Lewis: Improvement.
Sydney Lewis: Well, it's twenty years old now.
Frances Lewis: Designwise. Do you feel that way?
Warren: I agree with you.
Frances Lewis: It's funny, but a good designer will design something good, and you
round that down, and it's not good anymore.
Sydney Lewis: I wonder if Fred Cox designed the furniture.
Frances Lewis: No.
Sydney Lewis: He did not?

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Frances Lewis: No. Somebody good did the moot court room, but somebody else, I
think they just got ready-made—I don't know.
Sydney Lewis: You mean that's Bob and Roy Steinheimer?
Frances Lewis: Yeah. And I hate to say this. They would not know the difference.
That doesn't make them bad people. Terrible people care about design, as well as good
people. But I don't think they ever saw the difference.
Sydney Lewis: Maybe not. Do you think they could tell the difference between a
Rembrandt and a Titian?
Frances Lewis: No. [Laughter] But the interior outdoor courts are terrific, I think.
And see, I don't know anything about gardens and trees, and those courts look
wonderful to me. Probably somebody who has more expertise may know different.
How do you feel about them?
Warren: It's a lovely idea to have that sense of a garden within a building.
Frances Lewis: Oh, I think it's terrific.
Sydney Lewis: That was done—while you were talking, I was trying to think of his
name, but a group of architects from Philadelphia.
Frances Lewis: So they got in some experts.
Sydney Lewis: Oh, yes, absolutely. What was their name? I forget.
Warren: You know, the only complaint I have about the building?
Frances Lewis: What is that?
Warren: It's not properly signed. You get out of your car and you don't know where
you're supposed to go. It's so confusing. I mean, I know the building well enough. I go
in any door, and I can find my way around. But try to explain to someone where to
park and then which way to go. Usually you'll say, "Well, you'll see the sign, and that
will lead you to the front door." If you don't go across the footbridge, you don't know
where you're going.

                                                                                                                       37
Frances Lewis: That's exactly right, and we don't go across the footbridge anymore.
That is true.
Warren: I think you two ought to complain about it. You might get some action on it.
Frances Lewis: Should we do that?
Sydney Lewis: I've never gotten any action in my life around here.
Frances Lewis: Well, that would be interesting. I never thought of that.
Sydney Lewis: The next time I see Barry Sullivan, I'll tell him people are complaining
all over the place they can't find the law school, and they want to see it.
Frances Lewis: We could hardly get out today.
Sydney Lewis: We could hardly get out?
Frances Lewis: We have to go to a certain landing.
Sydney Lewis: Oh, yeah, within the law school. But that's because of my handicap.
Frances Lewis: Right.
Sydney Lewis: I mean, others wouldn't go that route.
Frances Lewis: Correct.
Warren: But others are just as handicapped because they don't know—
Frances Lewis: Which way to go.
Sydney Lewis: Exactly right. Probably more handicapped, because I know the way to
go.
Warren: Exactly.
Frances Lewis: I always thought it was me, because I never know where I'm going
anyway.
Warren: I assure you, it's not you. But you two are the only ones I can think of who
would actually maybe get some action on this.
Sydney Lewis: We'll try.
Warren: Some nicely designed signs.

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Sydney Lewis: Well, you know, there are no signs at all at Washington and Lee of any
building.
Warren: I know.
Sydney Lewis: No signs at all.
Warren: It's so confusing.
Sydney Lewis: Yesterday we went over to the new science building, and I was just
kidding it took us longer to find the new science building than it took us to fly from
Virginia Beach to Shenandoah Valley airport.
Frances Lewis: Of course, we were trying to get close with the car so that he could get
out and ride his machine.
Warren: It's not easy.
Frances Lewis: It was not easy. But, you know, giving directions, which is what
signage is sort of a subdivision of, is not an amateur job.
Sydney Lewis: No, no, no. It's very difficult.
Frances Lewis: It's very difficult, and it certainly needs improving. All right, will you
pass that up?

         Now, when is this book to be—what is it going to be? Is it going to be a
published book?
Warren: Yes. You will have a substantial book in your hands by October 1, 1998.
Frances Lewis: That's terrific.
Warren: The actual anniversary is, of course, Founders Day, January 19, '99, which is
what they set for me as my goal, and I said, "No, no, no, no. No one buys books in
January. People buy books in the fall."
Sydney Lewis: Before Christmas, right?
Frances Lewis: Is that true?
Warren: Yes.
Frances Lewis: Oh, I didn't know that.

                                                                                                                       39
Warren: Oh, yes. I've done a lot of book marketing, and, believe me, nobody buys
books in January. So I said, "We'll get it out in the fall and let everybody know it's
coming." Surely everyone will have it by the actual Founders Day, but the goal is that
we will have bound books by 1998.
Sydney Lewis: That's terrific.
Warren: Is there anything more you all would like to talk about? You are such a
wonderful prompter. You've been such a help. You know the stories that he knows
about.
Frances Lewis: I know the stories. Get them out. Well, there are loads more, but I—
Dear, think a while.
Sydney Lewis: No. I've thought enough today.
Frances Lewis: We're always wondering what else is different, which would make this
book interesting. The dress we've touched on.
Sydney Lewis: I'm sure that everybody you talk to will have the same story to tell
about this university.
Warren: There's a continuity of feeling about this place that's very impressive.
Frances Lewis: What age span have you covered so far? I mean, the age of the
interviewees.
Warren: I'm doing someone from the class of '34 later this week. He will be the oldest
so far. I've talked to several people in your age group. And the youngest person just
graduated.
Frances Lewis: Terrific.
Warren: The youngest person just graduated. I think that's very important to get the
young people's point of view, as well, because they're the alumni of tomorrow, aren't
they?
Frances Lewis: That's right. Well, I hope you hit somebody who was at the end of the
all-male period.

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Warren: Is there anybody in particular you would recommend for that time period?
Frances Lewis: I don't think I know anybody.
Sydney Lewis: What do you mean at the end?
Frances Lewis: The ones who ended the all-male Washington and Lee. What years
would they have been?
Sydney Lewis: Well, what year was coeducation?
Warren: 1984 is when the decision was.
Sydney Lewis: That's the year of the Supreme Court decision. No, that was 1954.
[Laughter]
Warren: I'm going to turn the tape off now, and thank you both very much.
[End of Interview]

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