Lopes interview

[Begin Tape 1, Side 2]
Warren: So tell me about this Rhodes Scholarship. How did that come to be?
Lopes: Well, it was sort of an accident. Well, I guess I had lined up all the
credentials that you needed. I didn't even know what a Rhodes Scholarship was.
Two months before I had it in my hand, I didn't know what it was. What happened
was, Dean Ruscio thought I should apply, and he gave me a call and had me come
in, and he talked to me. I said, "Oh, I don't know. Look at this application. There's
no way I'm going to get this thing. I don't have time," whatever. And he just kept
pushing me. One day I just happened to mention to one of my friends-this is
Willard Dumas, who was the guy who became president when the president was
dismissed, he became a very good friend of mine in the end, and he said, "What?
They want you to apply for a Rhodes Scholarship? What? Are you crazy? Of course
you're going to apply." And he was the one that drilled it into my brain, along with
another guy, his roommate John Fiankowitz [phonetic], that I was absolutely-you
know, this was huge and I had to apply. I just didn't understand. It didn't sink into
my head.

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         So I also at the time happened to be very sick, and I wasn't able to do my
schoolwork, and I figured, "Okay, if I can't do my classwork and I can't work, I might
as well fill out this application." So I filled the thing out and I thought, in all
honesty, that at least I'd get a trip home, because I knew that W&L knew I didn't
have the cash to fly home, and I thought, "Okay, at least I'm going to get an
interview in Hawaii out of this." And it was at Christmastime. And sure enough, I
did. I still was kind of surprised, but I was happy. I had to take my exams. This was
evidence of the Honor Code. All the professors gave me my exams and I took them
at home in Hawaii.

         But I flew home and I had my interview, and all I took home was a dress and
shoes and whatever, some books, and that was it. I figured that was all I was going
to need. I got there and I had my interview, and I met some people that I hadn't
seen in a long time, actually, who were also interviewing. They told me that I was
going to get to go to the regional interview, and I was like, "What?" I had nothing.
I had no clothes I could wear in the mainland U.S. So I had to go out and buy a suit
and get on a plane, I think the next day, and fly to L.A.

         I was still really ill, and I was actually eating cough drops. There's a series
of-what do they call it? There's a breakfast and a drink session, then you're
interviewed, and the whole time I'm on the cough drops. Especially at the breakfast
and the drinks, you're supposed to be social. People told me later that I was out of it
and I wasn't saying anything to anybody. I was just sitting around waiting for the
judges or whatever to come around and talk to me.

         I went in for my interview, and I guess-I don't think I told them anything
particularly intellectual. I just answered their questions. We actually had a good
time. We laughed some. They were very interested in W&L.

         I didn't think anything of it. I left, went back to my room, went for a swim,
hung out, basically waited to go back home, because what they do is, at the end, they

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get everybody together who had interviewed and tell you on the spot who got it and
who didn't. So I went back later on in the afternoon, changed out of my suit. I was
just wearing a sundress or something, standing around, and the next thing I knew,
they were reading the names off. I was so sure that I wasn't going to get it, I wasn't
even listening. They said, "Okay, we're going to read them alphabetical," and they
read the first guy's name. I remember thinking to myself, "Lu. Now, how do you
spell Lu?" Is that going to be after or before my name? So as I was sitting there
doing that, they read my name and they went on, and the next thing I knew, people
were shaking my hand. I was thinking, "What?" [Laughter] I didn't even hear it.
But I was happy. I don't know, I don't think I understood what it was all about until
my second year in Oxford, actually, before I understood really what was going on.
Warren: And you say they questioned you about Washington and Lee. What do
you think their interest in Washington and Lee was?
Lopes: Well, they were wondering how a girl from Hawaii would be able to
assimilate and settle and do things that I did at W&L, which they knew to be a
former male bastion and which they knew to be Southern in some sort of way,
which they knew to be very-what do you call it? Far from any other large
civilization, very out there. They knew more about W&L than I knew definitely
when I started, and they knew enough to ask me all these questions about how in
the world I had survived. I told them the truth, that it really wasn't that bad.
Warren: So no wonder you're doing such a good job answering my questions.
You've already answered these questions. [Laughter]
Lopes: Well, I don't know. It's been a while since I've talked about these things.
Warren: So was that a really important thing in your life?
Lopes: The Rhodes Scholarship?
Warren: Yes.

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Lopes: It was a very important thing. I think I harbor a lot of animosity in some
ways, which I don't talk to a lot of people about, and I don't want to sound like a
brat, but I had no idea what I was getting myself into, and I don't feel like I had a lot
of support while I was there. People weren't explaining things to me. But on the
other hand, a lot of folks say, "Now you've learned that folks out there aren't going
to explain things to you in life, and you have to figure things out yourself." What it
did do was, I had had four good hard years of high school, then four good hard years
of college, and I was dog tired. I went there thinking I was taking a vacation for two
years, as far as I'm concerned. And now I wish I hadn't. I wish I had worked harder,
but at that time I guess I was really tired, and it gave me time to just think about my
life and where I was going and what I was doing. It was a very eye-opening
experience.
Warren: Did you wind up with a degree?
Lopes: Yes, I have a bachelor's degree in history from Oxford.
Warren: So you get a second bachelor's from them.
Lopes: But you can do anything. Some people don't get degrees. Some people get
master's. Some people go on to do D.PH.L.s, [phonetic], doctor degrees. Some
people get a bachelor's. President Clinton didn't get a degree. A lot of people of his
time didn't. Most people now do, I think.
Warren: I have seen your picture there in the library.
Lopes: Is it still there?
Warren: Yes, "the most recent Rhodes Scholar."
Lopes: I thought it might come down after President Wilson left.
Warren: No. Well, all the previous ones are there, too. Have you ever gotten
together with the previous? Is there any attempt? Are you some society within
Washington and Lee alumni?

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Lopes: No, I guess I'm the only woman, too. No, I don't even know that a lot of
them are still alive, actually. I've only heard about one other guy, because he was
the father of somebody who was in my class. I don't know.
Warren: I was actually playing a little dumb there in the previous set of questions.
Will Dumas is one of the people I'm going to interview.
Lopes: Good.
Warren: Are there any particular things I should pursue with him?
Lopes: Willard will give you a good interview. He is much more articulate than I
am. That's really funny, actually.
Warren: I hope to get to see him.
Lopes: You really should. You really should. You really should.
Warren: Tell me why. He's in a place that nobody else is, and I've got to justify
making that trip.
Lopes: He's in Chicago now.
Warren: I thought he was in Michigan.
Lopes: Michigan. You're right. He's in Michigan. Sorry. He's in Michigan.
Anyway, why Willard? Because, number one, because Willard was on the Honor
Council for three years at a very tumultuous time with the girls, and, of course,
there's a lot of racial tension at W&L, so he dealt with that. He has a really good
perspective on the school, what it wants to be and what it really is. He has some
good thoughts, now that he's older, on how he felt that experience shaped him in
good ways and maybe some not-so-good ways. He knew the campus inside out.
Willard knew everybody there-everybody. I think he has some bad memories and
he has some good memories. He definitely thinks about W&L a lot. W&L is always
on his mind.
Warren: What was your perception of these racial tensions?

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Lopes: I wasn't aware of them. My best friend when I first started, my so-called big
sister, was a Filipino American girl who had grown up in West Virginia, and I think
the way she conducted her life was to just ignore anything and just pretend that she
was white. Not that she ignored her family, but she just never thought any other
way, never ever allowed herself to think that somebody didn't like her because of
her race. I just followed her and I didn't think anything about it. Again, I didn't
realize. There is a lot of problems with the black students at W&L. There is a lot of
racism. I didn't feel I was black; I was, for all intents and purposes, white. I didn't
really realize until my senior year, when people started to get a lot nastier, that they
had, in fact-there had been a lot of questions about where I was from, and I knew
that when I sat there in class, especially in the first couple of years, and they read my
name off the roll, I was the only Hispanic name, generally, and everybody would
turn around and find out who I was. I didn't think much of it. I didn't realize until
later on that people thought otherwise, because I guess I just chose to ignore it. I
think it was a good thing for me.
Warren: It's something I really want to talk to black graduates who have gone
through and hear that perspective. I think it's really important to hear people your
age's perspective. It's interesting that the list of people that was first put together as
people to interview was real topheavy with forties' and fifties' people, and I had to
keep pointing out to them that there's a big alumni base out there.
Lopes: There's a certain way that they want W&L to get projected, that's for sure. I
have no doubt in my mind about that. And that will come from the forties' and
fifties' grads, not from the sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties.
Warren: When Homecoming Weekend happened, did you get animosity from
alumni towards being a woman?
Lopes: No, no. I think the older alums, the real old guys, you know, seventy-five-
year-olds, whatever, they loved it. I think even the over-fifty-year-old crowd loved

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it. A lot of them were really happy because their daughters would now get to go to
W&L. They had no problems with it. It was more the younger crowd that had a
bigger problem. And even them, I think the first couple of years, yeah, I did hear
stuff and see stuff, but especially because I was a waitress, and this was one place
where they didn't know I was a student, so I would hear a lot of things in dinner-
table conversation, that they didn't realize I was a student.

         And it's funny, because I don't think they realized I was a student, some of
the persistent leaders amongst the alums and maybe the trustees, they didn't realize
I was a student, they didn't realize I was a Rhodes Scholar, and then I became a
Rhodes Scholar and suddenly I was sitting there eating with them, and I felt very
strange about it. I think they felt very strange about it, as well. It was odd. I
eventually just had to quit. I couldn't do that job anymore. It was too weird.
Warren: Do you go back now for homecoming?
Lopes: No. I don't go back anytime there's huge crowds of people. That's not how I
like W&L. I like W&L when it's quieter.
Warren: What do you do when you go back now?
Lopes: Usually I go running. I usually go by myself. I hang out and have dinner
with a couple of friends or faculty still around, go running every day, drive up to the
parkway, stuff like that.
Warren: Were there places in Rockbridge County that meant a lot to you?
Lopes: I didn't have a car, so my circle of reference is going to be smaller. The
parkway is always a favorite place. Goshen was a favorite place. Probably the places
that I am most sentimentally attached to are the places that I ran. I guess we ran
Turkey Hill, we ran the tow path. We ran all the way to Buena Vista one day.
Maybe we did that a couple of times; I don't remember. I think we did that a couple
of times. I can't remember what the places are called now. Jesus Christ, I can't
believe I can't remember. The trail, the cross country trail. I think those are the

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places I am most sentimentally attached to, anyplace I could run to. Coach
Phemister's house, the route to Coach Phemister's. What is it-there was a battle
out somewhere near Coach Phemister's house. I used to run around that site,
whatever it was called.
Warren: Is there anything else you would like to say about W&L that I haven't
brought up, that you'd like to talk about?
Lopes: I just think that I was much better talking about these things when I was four
years ago. I don't know. Four years later, what do I think about what happened? I
don't know. I think it was a good thing. It was a crazy time, lots of things going on.
Warren: I'll bet it was a dramatic time.
Lopes: W&L, you think it's such a quiet place, but, you know, you can learn a lot
about life at W&L, you certainly can. I think I learned a lot more there than I would
have learned at a state school, just about being a person, if you try, if you go out
there and attempt to do something.
Warren: Thank you, Pat. This has been really, really good.
[End of interview]

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