Butler interview

[Begin Tape 1, Side 2]
Warren: You talked about first arriving on campus, on the train. Was this back in the
days when Rush would happen on the train, and fraternity people would approach you
while you were still on the train?
Butler: As far as I know, not.
Warren: No?
Butler: The rushing of fraternities, it just didn’t happen. I know that the only rushing I
had was, well, a couple of fraternities, but because of my grades, and as I remember,
our club had the valedictorian of that class when I came in. They had top students in
Arcadis Club at that time. So it wasn’t until I was here, I guess a semester or something

                                                                                                                        14
like that, and so I wasn’t particularly interested. The only rushing that I saw was from a
couple of fraternities, and I finally decided since this group had the highest grades and
so forth, and seemed to be a studious group, then I’d join that.

         There were enough students blowing fraternities. There were Greeks and non-
Greeks. What did they call the non-Greeks? Barbs. I’d say about the half the student
body were fraternity people. And it’s pretty much settled down in a matter of two
semesters, and everybody seemed to know where they were wanted and where they
would go. That was it.
Warren: What does "barbs" mean?
Butler: Barbarians. Greeks and Barbarians. If you were not a fraternity man, you were a
barbarian. And if you were a fraternity man, you were a Greek.
Warren: Why would somebody choose to not be in a fraternity?
Butler: Money, maybe, depending upon what their family did. The barbarians—we’d
call them "barbs" occasionally—lived in the dormitory. I think you had to live in the
dormitory for a year, if I remember correctly. At least six months. You got to know the
people that were in the dormitory. So you could either stay on in the dormitory, if you
wanted to, another year, or you go out in the city, or you could join a fraternity. So I
picked the Arcadis Club. It was convenient. And I didn’t particularly want to live at the
fraternity. That was another problem. For financial reasons, most fraternities had to
have students living in the house, so that if you joined a fraternity, as I remember, your
first semester there was some requirement by the fraternity that you come and live in
the fraternity.
Warren: But you didn’t want to live in the fraternity?
Butler: I didn’t, initially. In other words, I wanted to see what—after all, they had the
same cooks, you know, and you had to eat in the fraternity. We had what we called the
Beanery, and two dorms.
Warren: What was the Beanery?

                                                                                                                        15
Butler: The dining hall for the students. In other words, you could eat in the Beanery. I
can’t remember what it was—$30 a month or something like that. It was relatively
economical.
Warren: And do you remember where the Beanery was?
Butler: It was right over about where the bookstore is, as I remember. It was the
Beanery. It was a relatively small town here. Just two colleges supported the town.

         One unusual thing—clothing. Back in those days, dress code at Washington and
Lee, everybody had to wear a jacket or a lettered sweater. In other words, if you made a
letter, you could wear a monogrammed sweater. But the dress code was very stringent
at Washington and Lee. I know one of the nice things about winning a letter was to be
able to wear the sweater occasionally, and not have to wear a jacket.

         Another thing that I remember, too, is you could leave your—that honor code
was much stricter than it was. Books, throw them down, and you’d find those books
would be there a week later. Nobody touched anybody else’s gear. So the honor code
was very stringent in those days. The dress code was very stringent in those days.
Warren: That was my next question to you, was about the Honor System. Can you
remember how that was first explained to you, how you came to know about the Honor
System?
Butler: Oh, I can’t remember what the first—it was understood. When you came here,
the honor code was very strict. You knew it. As far as I know, they didn’t have any
lectures on the honor code, but it was very strict. I guess it was perhaps as a result of
discipline. And I can’t remember any cheating. The professors would go out of the
room, and as far as I know, I never saw any cheating at Washington and Lee, on grades
or anything else, which was unbelievable, because that was drilled into us.
Warren: Well, it’s still very much in effect today.
Butler: I trust that. I don’t think it’s quite as stringent as it was back then. I believe it
was enforced by the students themselves, some way or another. Exactly how it was

                                                                                                                        16
enforced, I don’t know. It was a very stringent code, and I still remember books and
clothing and everything else. You’d throw it down on the corner, and it would be there
the next morning. You didn’t have to worry about anybody stealing any of your
property. As far as I know, there was never a theft around.
Warren: Well, my last question. Do you remember, when you first arrived here, what
your sense of this place was, as the campus, what your first impression was when you
first walked onto the campus?
Butler: Well, I was fairly lonesome, coming from Florida, and not having any Virginia
connections, and I was glad to see that we at least had some of the boys from my high
school up here. But it was lonesome, as far as a southern boy coming up here to school,
away from home. I know I was always glad to go down to the post office and see what
mail I had. I don’t how much mail I got. I guess I got a fair amount of mail. I guess it
was a lonesome feeling, having been at home in my high school days.

         Of course, too, the local life here in Lexington was negligible. In other words, if
you went to church, you weren’t associating with any of the townspeople. In other
words, Washington and Lee was the activity that you were bound up in. You didn’t get
to know many of the townspeople.

         I remember, too, in the early days, the stringency of the dress code. The salesmen
would come. Stetson Clothes, for example, would come to the Dutch Inn, and they
would have showings. Oh, another thing. Pressing Club. All of us belonged to the
Pressing Club. Our clothes were pressed. Can you imagine? Twice a week, on jackets. I
would imagine, for, I think, it’s two dollars a month, or something like that, you got a
jacket a week pressed. And everybody belonged to a Pressing Club.
Warren: And would they come to you?
Butler: They would collect the garments and bring them back. That was a ritual.
Warren: Really? Nobody’s told me about that before. That’s really interesting.

                                                                                                                        17
Butler: Pressing Clubs. I can’t remember the cost, but it was nominal. I don’t know of
anybody that didn’t belong to the Pressing Club. Well, you think about that today—
Warren: Wouldn’t that be a nice service?
Butler: Well, I don’t know how the clothes stand up today like they did back in those
days. But the Pressing Club was one of the requirements here. Pressing Club, the post
office. The Camels had this—I can’t think of the name—not the PX, but it’s the corner
store down here where they sold items, sort of a bookstore, and that was one of the
establishments in Lexington.
Warren: You know, there’s one other person I had on my list that I haven’t asked you
about. Did you know Miss Annie Jo White?
Butler: Not really. Did she house girls during the—
Warren: I think she took in students, and she was the librarian, and she, of course, ran
Fancy Dress for a long time, started Fancy Dress.
Butler: No, I really didn’t know—Pete Eak [phonetic] was the treasurer. Laundry. The
colored—I don’t if it was colored folks or not—there was a family, a woman that took
your laundry. I don’t know, maybe it was three dollars a month, or something like that.
And I remember I’d give her a check. Can you imagine giving a person a check for three
dollars? And she had raised the three to eight dollars. Of course, my checkbook didn’t
balance, and I went back to the bank, and she hadn’t changed the three on the writing,
but she had changed the "three" figure. And I said, "Well, how can you charge me eight
dollars for this, and in writing it’s three?" and that was obviously not my figures. Well,
they got her in, and they read the riot act to her, on the matter of raising a three-dollar
check to eight dollars. So it meant I had a checking account.

         The fraternity houses were just starting to be built, the nice ones. Most of the
fraternity houses were frame houses, like the Arcadis Club, or your alumni
headquarters down here now.
Warren: Were they all called clubs then?

                                                                                                                        18
Butler: No. The Arcadis was the only one, and we had petitioned to DU to be accepted
as a fraternity. They never referred to it as a club, they just said Arcadis. And it was a
convenient location, right next to the church.
Warren: So was it an official fraternity when you were here?
Butler: Yes, it was an official fraternity. It was the only non-Greek fraternity on the
campus.
Warren: But are you saying it became Greek while you were a member of it?
Butler: It became Greek, I guess the year or so after I graduated, because we were
petitioning DU for national status. It did become national, I guess, in ‘29 or ‘30,
something like that. And, of course, I guess it’s disappeared since that time.
Warren: So while you were a member, it was strictly a Washington and Lee fraternity?
Butler: Fraternity, right. Local fraternity. And the only local fraternity on the campus.
All the rest were Greek.
Warren: And prior to that time, had there been a number of local fraternities?
Butler: I guess all the fraternities were local at one time. You remember KA was born
here, and that was the usual process. They would petition the national to become a
member. I guess KA was initially started here. Was any other fraternity? Maybe so, I
don’t know. But anyhow, what they’d normally do, they’d form this club, and the club
would petition the national fraternity and be accepted, and that’s the way the Arcadis
Club—we had our own little badge. It had an "A" and "A." "A" this way, and a "A"
below. Arcadis Anbo.
Warren: A-N-B-O?
Butler: Yes.
Warren: Arcadis Anbo.
Butler: And it stands for "brothers both."
Warren: Well, that is an entirely new one on me. I’ve never talked to anybody who
belonged to a local fraternity.

                                                                                                                        19
Butler: A local fraternity, yep.
Warren: Well, we’ve made it through my list of questions. Anything else on Henry
Louis Smith? I think you’re probably the only person I’m going to talk to who knew
Henry Louis Smith. I’d love to know more about him.
Butler: He was somewhat a distant figure on the campus. As far as I know, he did not
actively become involved with the students. Dean Gilliam came here during my period.
I’m not sure he came here as dean; I think he became dean after he came here. I don’t
know. Mattingly and Gilliam and the professors were the people that associated with
your student body. And, of course, the law school had its faculty.

         And I remember, you know McDowell, of Washington Week in Review? Charlie
McDowell was the son of Professor McDowell, who, I guess, was dean. I’m not sure. He
was here at that time. The law students used to call him "Footnote McDowell."
Footnote McDowell, because he was the son of the dean of the law school. Charlie
McDowell, a kid.
Warren: Do you remember him as a kid? Did you know him?
Butler: No, I didn’t know him. I don’t remember knowing any of the kids around. We
had a fraternity faculty advisor who just died here rather recently, at the age of one
hundred.
Warren: Mr. Latture?
Butler: Rupert Latture was our faculty advisor and our guiding light at that particular
time, and our representative on the—
Warren: He must have been quite young then.
Butler: I assume he was.
Warren: Because he graduated in 1916, something like that. 1915, 1916.
Butler: I don’t know. I remember, too, I tried out for the Rhodes Scholarship
examination, and no Washington and Lee student had ever held a Rhodes Scholarship
from Virginia. University of Virginia had always garnered the Rhodes Scholarship

                                                                                                                        20
examination, until—what’s our president we were talking about, who was president of
the University of Virginia?
Warren: Edgar Shannon.
Butler: Edgar Shannon was a Rhodes Scholar, as I remember, and the only Rhodes
Scholar [sic]. Did he go to Washington and Lee?
Warren: Yes.
Butler: I guess he did. He was the first Rhodes Scholar, I think, that Washington and
Lee had. And I know I traveled—on the Rhodes Scholarship examination, they said it
was useless to try in Virginia because of the University of Virginia tie. I’d been in
Maryland only three months, I guess it was, and they said I didn’t have enough
residence in Maryland to take it. So I took the Rhodes Scholarship "examination" down
at Gainesville, Florida, from the state of Florida. My brother was then president of the
student body down there, and I thought I had a great chance. And it turned out that the
son of the president of Rollins College was given the scholarship that year down there.
We always thought it was prejudicial, that the son of a president of a college would get
it, rather than somebody else. But that’s the story of a Rhodes Scholarship.
Warren: I want to thank you. I know it’s time for your next session to start up, and I
don’t want to have you be late. I really want to thank you for taking some time with me.
It’s been a real pleasure to talk with you.
Butler: Indeed, you’re welcome, and let me know if there’s anything you want
clarified.
Warren: I will.
Butler: I think the nicest thing that happened, in World War II, after leaving
Washington and Lee, I enlisted in the Maryland National Guard, and the captain of this
outfit said, "You have too much education to be a private. I’ll make you a private first
class." So I went in the service at a $1.05 a drill, instead of a dollar, as a result of my
education down here.

                                                                                                                        21
         In World War II, I happened to be at the right spot at the right time, and I
became a full colonel in 1944, with no more than three days of military schooling, and
some [unclear] schooling. VMI did well in World War II, with Marshall and Patton and
some of the others, but I thought I did fairly well, considering the fact that I’d never had
military training.
Warren: That’s pretty good. Thank you.
Butler: Indeed, you’re welcome. I appreciate it.
[End of Interview]

                                                                                                                        22