ROY STEINHEIMER 
May 9, 1996 Mame Warren, interviewer 
Warren: This is Mame Warren. Today is the ninth of May 1996. I'm in Lexington, Virginia, at Washington and Lee Law School with former Dean Roy Steinheimer. 
You came to Washington and Lee when the law school was still at Tucker Hall. Did you know when you came that so many big changes were going to happen? Steinheimer: Well, I had been at the University of Michigan Law School, which was a pretty prestigious school, and I came to Washington and Lee principally because I saw a great potential for development of the law school, and I thought it would be exciting to try and help steer that development. Warren: Tell me more about that. Tell me what vision you had. Steinheimer: Well, I believed that most state university law schools had become far too large and impersonal, and I thought that if you had a private university with a law school, that there was more chance to control the problems of size and the development of the school. 
Now, frankly, when I came to Washington and Lee, I thought the law school was too small. It was too small to support the kind of library you should have, the size faculty you should have, so I told President Huntiey before I took the job that I thought the law school should, on long-range plan, grow in size, but I also said it should be a very carefully controlled growth and that to my mind, certainly the last thing that we should do would be to become too large. 
In discussing it with him over a period of time, we decided that a student body of about 350 students would be the ideal size for a law school so that you could have proper library facilities, proper faculty facilities, and at the same time have the personal touch in professional education which I think is so important to the development of professional people. Warren: So describe what Washington and Lee Law School was like when you arrived. Steinheimer: Well, it was a very small, friendly place. The students were interested and had decent potential as professionals. The faculty was small, but they were extremely devoted to the school and anxious to make a contribution to the school, and I was very fortunate that we did have that nucleus of a small group on the 
faculty who were dedicated to the development of the law school. Warren: Who were some of those people? Steinheimer: Well, the former dean of the law school was Charles Light, who had stayed on after he retired as dean, who was an excellent teacher. Charles Laughlin was one of the excellent older members of the faculty. And then there were a number of younger faculty who have proved, over the years, to be extremely helpful in the development of the school such as Andy McThenia, Lash LaRue, and Roger Groot, and so forth. Warren: These were people who were all there in Tucker Hall? Steinheimer: Roger was not there. I brought him in very shortly after I came down 
here, but the others were professors there at the law school. Warren: So the law school was a very different place just as a facility at that time. Tell me about Tucker Hall. 
Steinheimer: Well, Tucker Hall is a beautiful building. It was certainly adequate to 
the needs of a school that was less than two hundred in size, but it certainly wasn't capable of taking care of more than that number. Warren: What was President Huntley's reaction when you talked about enlarging the school? He had been the dean of the law school, so he knew the law school intimately. Steinheimer: He had no difficulty with that all at. He, I think, could see, as I did, that there was this need to grow in size and that, of course, created the problem if we grew in size, where would we be, because Tucker Hall wasn't big enough to handle a law school that was going to be 350 in size with more faculty, more library facility, and so forth. So very early on, President Huntley and I saw that we certainly needed 
to do something about finding a way to have new facilities. 
I must say that I think the greatest thing that ever happened to our law school was the fact that S)tlney and Frances Lewis decided to help us out significantly by making a magnificent gift to us that made this new building that we have now all possible, plus some extra money to establish our Law Center, which I think is an important facet of our operation. So getting a new law building was key to our developing. Warren: Take me back to that time. How did that happen? What was the story? Steinheimer: Well, President Huntley was, of course, the leader in development matters and seeking funds for the University, and I was simply supportive of what he had in mind in that regard. He could better tell you than I how the first contacts came about with the Lewises, but my recollection is that the Lewises had indicated to 
President Huntley that they had an interest in doing something of some significance to support the University. At that time they weren't necessarily thinking in terms of the law school, but some kind of gift which would help the University. And that 
gradually worked around to a situation, and I'm sure President Huntley guided them in this direction, to the needs of our having new facilities of the law school. 
At that point I became somewhat active in the matter, because, of course, if there was going to be a gift to the law school, the Lewises had to know something about the plans for the law school and who was involved in the law school, and at that point I first became acquainted with the Lewises and had a number of visits with them about our plans and aspirations for the law school. We developed a mutual feeling of interest and confidence in one another, and it simply finally led to their announcing to Bob and to me, at one of our meetings, that they were prepared to give us a gift of nine million dollars, which at that time was a pretty substantial gift. Warren: It still is. Steinheimer: Right. Warren: So what year are we talking about here? Steinheimer: I think you'll have to go back to the records on that. I must say that 
years slide a little in my mind as to timing. It was very early seventies. Warren: So had you already had the nucleus of the idea of what kind of building and what kind of facility you wanted? Steinheimer: No. No. Warren: Which was the chicken and which was the egg? Steinheimer: All that we knew was that we needed a larger facility, and the exact kind of facility it would be, the Lewises, President Huntley, and myself didn't get into details of the physical nature of that new facility. It was only after they had made the decision to give this magnificent support to the law school that we then began to get into the rutty gritty of what the facility should look like and how it should be designed and so forth. 
I remember that I flew the architects who were brought in to help design the 
building to a number of different law schools in the eastern part of the United States so that they could see their buildings, buildings that I thought were good buildings. Warren: Like where? Steinheimer: Well, they went to Columbia. They went to the University of North Carolina. There were several others, but I don't remember exactly where else. But I think they made about four trips to different law schools, so they could see the different ways in which law schools were designed and so they could get some feeling the way law schools should function. 
After we made those exploratory trips and had a good many discussions, gradually our ideas as to how this building should be design evolved, and I think we ended up with a magnificent new facility. Warren: Who picked the site? Steinheimer: That was done by President Huntley and the Board of Trustees in their overall planning of the development of the campus. I had nothing to do with that. Warren: What was the reaction within in the law school when everybody realized that you were coming over to this side and leaving the front campus? Steinheimer: I don't think the law students were concerned. Warren: How about the faculty? Steinheimer: Not the faculty. I don't think that was a matter of great concern to 
them, because they had seen the plans for the wonderful facility we would have, and that was exciting enough to make both the students and the faculty quite excited about the change. Warren: So I understand from Sally that you flew all over the place to study different aspects of schools. What kinds of things were you looking for? What makes a law school building work? 
Steinheimer: Well, it's a little hard to nail it down, I suppose, but I think one of the 
things you need to have is a feeling of community that will develop in your law 
school facility, which means that you've got to try to design the building in a way 
that people feel at home and comfortable in the facility. I don't like a lot of marble 
halls and cold appearance that you find in some buildings. As you can see, we 
certainly didn't end up with that sort of thing in this facility. I think it feels 
comfortable, inviting, and warm to the senses. 
Also, I have a strong feeling that law students spend so much of their time in 
three years of law school within the law school building and working within the 
law school building, that you've got to try and do something to make them feel 
comfortable with their quarters. And I think our idea of having individual carrels 
for each student, it was something new, it had not been done as widely as we did it 
here, and I think it is something that has created a feeling of community among the 
students that we wouldn't have gotten if we hadn't had that facet of our building. 
Obviously you've got to have good library facilities, and we certainly do have magnificent library facilities, and you've got to have comfortable classroom facilities, and we certainly have that. You also have to have adequate space and inviting space for student activities of various kinds, and we had to plan that into the building, too, so that the students would have their own space, so to speak, that they could call their own for their activities. Warren: Sally gave me the impression that you were involved in decisions down to the furniture. Steinheimer: Yes, I was. We had to save money wherever we could, and so one way we were able to save a substantial amount of money was through one of our law alumni who was also on the board of trustees, who had connections in the furniture industry, to get an arrangement for a very good break on the cost of our 
furniture. So I worked very closely with them as to the furniture that you see in the 
building. Warren: So what was that transitional period like when the building was under construction and yet you still had a law school to keep going over at Tucker Hall? Was that a really busy time for you? Steinheimer: Yes, it was busy, but I didn't find it all that traumatic. The law school was operating effectively and efficiently with good staff, and the students were cooperative and helpful in the operations in the law school in Tucker Hall, and faculty were, so that I was not overwhelmed with unusual problems in the day-to­day operations of the law school. So I had time to devote to the planning of the next building along with the running the day-to-day operations of the law school. 
Once the architects had finalized the plans to meet our requirements and you get your bid from the contractors and turn it over to the contractors, then from that point on, it's kind of in the hands of God, shall we say, as to whether or not everything is going to turn out all right. You simply keep a general eye on the way things are developing and you rely heavily on your architects to be sure that they're riding herd and policing the contractor to see that everything is done properly, under the terms of the contract. Warren: And were you happy with that experience? Did they do that for you? Steinheimer: Well, we had one hitch. The contractor that we originally brought in ran into some financial difficulty shortly after he got started on the building, and that was a little traumatic. Warren: What happened? Steinheimer: But we were able to pull that out and save the thing. But it was just 
one of those things. Warren: Well, that must have been a huge project for somebody to be having problems as soon as it started. 
Steinheimer: Well, suffice it to say that President Huntley was very capable of 
riding herd on that, which was his responsibility, really, because, after all, the board of trustees made the decision as to who the contractor would be and so forth, and so when there were difficulties in that regard, it was really a matter for the board of trustees and the president to work out, rather than it devolving on my shoulders. Warren: So the board selected the contractor? Steinheimer: Yes. Warren: Who selected the architect? Steinheimer: The board. Warren: I didn't realize it was done at that level. Steinheimer: They certainly approved it. I think President Huntley probably was the triggering mechanism for selection, but it was all done and board-approved. 
Warren: So take me to the actual move of Tucker Hall. I understand that Charles· Laughlin gave a eulogy for Tucker Hall. Steinheimer: Well, yes, there was a ceremony. I'm a little hazy on the details on it, but there was a nice ceremony and, as I remember, it was kind of a candle-lit ceremony in which Charlie Laughlin delivered the main, if you want to call it a eulogy--I don't know whether that's exactly what it should be called--but delivered the main comments about the significance that Tucker Hall had had for the law students, and it had had a great deal of significance, too. Certainly I'm sure that many of the older alumni who had come out of Tucker Hall viewed that old building there, a beautiful old building, as being the real home for them and not this new modern thing we had created in its place. 
Warren: But for you, this is the law school? Steinheimer: Exactly. Warren: So take me into this building. I understand there was a fabulous party at its opening. 
Steinheimer: Oh, yes. When we finally got the building built and shortly after we had moved into the building, we had the usual dedication ceremony that usually occurs in connection with a new significant building addition on the campus. It was truly a wonderful affair. 
One of the interesting things that was involved was that Justice Harman, who was on the Virginia Supreme Court at the time, had said that he would like to help to contribute to the ceremony by having something that was reminiscent of the dedication ceremonies that had occurred in connection with the original Tucker Hall. And so the story is, at that dedication ceremony for Tucker Hall on the main campus, that "Jockey John" Robinson, he was called, "Jockey John" Robinson, had arrived in a buggy at the dedication with a barrel of whiskey in the back of the buggy, and that he then tapped the keg and everyone at the--and this was all very impromptu, apparently--he tapped the keg and everyone was very pleased with his contribution and it had apparently added a great deal to the spirits of the people who were participating in the original dedication of Tucker Hall Law School site. 
So Justice Harman suggested that he would be willing to contribut~ a quantity rstc., L~'S '·-\J\\.L] of whlsk~y, in barrels, which could be used for the dedication oflucker Hall. He visited with President Huntley and myself about it and it was finally worked out that we would indeed have barrels of whiskey at the dedication, in the tradition of "Jockey John" Robinson. Since they had used tin cups in those days to drink "Jockey John's" whiskey, it was only appropriate that we have tin cups to drink the whiskey at Lewis Hall dedication. So at great trouble and certainly some expense, Justice Harman not only supplied the whiskey, but he also supplied all of the tin cups that were used to serve the whiskey. I must say that everyone was discreet in their consumption, but it added a little fill-up to the occasion. As a matter of fact, you can see the cups that we have. 
Warren: I noticed them when I first came in. Steinheimer: Those were handed out to each person who was present at the dedication. 
Another little interesting part of that episode is that poor Justice Harman ran into a considerable amount of problem with the liquor-control people about his being able to take the whiskey, which I think had to arrive in bottles in this country from Scotland. Justice Harman had gone over to Scotland and had purchased the whiskey, and I guess it had to be bottled to be brought into the country, and then I guess it was, with some difficulty, that Justice Harman was finally able to get the liquor-control people to permit him to take the whiskey, which was in the bottles, and pour it back into kegs so that we could have it properly served as it had been served back in the old days back at the Tucker Hall dedication. Warren: When I first moved to Lexington, those tin cups were everywhere and everyone was talking about that party. I was sorry to have missed it. Steinheimer: It was a great affair. Warren: Did everyone come over from Tucker Hall? Steinheimer: In what sense? Warren: I heard that Mrs. McDowell refused to come. Steinheimer: Well, Mrs. McDowell, I don't know that--1 wouldn't want to put it that way. Mrs. McDowell had reached her retirement age while we were still in 
Tucker Hall, and since she was such a devoted person to the law school and had served so valiantly in the law school, that when it came time for her to retire, at retirement age, I suggested that we would be happy to have her continue on a kind of a part-time arrangement with us in Tucker Hall, and she did do that and continued in that arrangement. 
Then by the time we were ready to move into Lewis Hall, of course she was invited to accompany us, but she rightly, I think, felt that with her stage in life and 
the changes that would be involved in moving to a new facility, that she would just 
as soon really fully retire at that point, rather than continue on a part-time basis. Warren: So this wasn't some moral stance she took? Steinheimer: She may have indicated to others that was the case, but not to me, she didn't. Warren: What position, exactly, did she have? Steinheimer: She was the secretary to the dean, the dean's secretary. Of course, in those earlier times, the law school was small enough that pretty much everything was funneled through the dean's office. And, of course, she, as the secretary to the dean, and being a very capable person, took on a great many of the day-to-day administrative tasks that flowed through the dean's office. Warren: So she was your secretary, but she preceded you? 
Steinheimer: Yes. She had been the secretary for several deans before I came here. She had been the secretary for Charles Light, and the brief time that President Huntley was dean, she was his secretary. When I came here, she was such a capable and able person and had so much understanding of the operations of the law school that I was delighted to have her continue when I first came here, and she did continue until, as I say, she reached retirement age. Then I had the difficult task of replacing her. Warren: Who did take her place? Steinheimer: Well, it wasn't an easy matter, and there were several persons over the period of several years that I brought in to try the job and found not satisfactory. 
So I went through several people in a matter of two to three years who didn't work out as a replacement for Mrs. McDowell, and finally, after I got here to the law school in Lewis Hall, I brought Darlene--it was probably about the time we moved into Lewis Hall that Darlene Moore had been assisting on the secretarial staff in Tucker Hall, and I was very impressed with her capabilities, so when we moved over here, I asked Darlene if she would act as my secretary. We moved in here, and, of course, did an excellent job for me. 
Then I needed someone to head up the whole secretarial operation here in Lewis Hall and, of course, she was so capable, I decided I would give her up as my secretary and put her in as the head of the whole secretarial staff, serving the faculty in the law school and the students who meet in the law school. I then brought in Win Johenning as a replacement for Darlene Moore, and Ms. Johenning served magnificently as my secretary until I finally retired. Warren: How do you spell her name? Steinheimer: J-0-H-E-N-N-I-N-G. Warren: There are so many people who keep a place like this going who don't ever get celebrated, that I think it's important to find out about those people. Steinheimer: Yes, yes. Warren: Are there other people here who I might not necessarily know about, but who were really important in keeping the place going? Steinheimer: I don't know whether you knew Darlene Moore. Warren: I didn't. Steinheimer: You should talk to her. She has been a mainstay, staffing-wise, in the 
law school. And you should talk to Win Johenning, who also was a very fine secretary for a number of years, and my secretary after we moved into Lewis Hall. Placement-wise, we had two people who did an excellent job for us there, during my tenure as dean, but they're both no longer with us and I doubt would be available. I don't think they're in the Lexington area now. Warren: What do you mean, "placement-wise"? Steinheimer: Our placement office. We have a very active placement program in which we process all of the job offers and so forth for our students in the law school through the placement office, and as a part of their activities, we bring law office 
representatives to the campus and to the law school to met our students, interview our students and so forth. That's a very active operation and a very important part of our operation, because if we give this good legal education to our students, we want them to be able to go out and use it effectively in a profession, and that means we've got to help them find appropriate opportunities for employment. Warren: Do all schools do that? Steinheimer: Oh, yes. All good schools do. Yes, indeed. Warren: Was that going on before you came here? Steinheimer: No. Warren: So that's one of the things you wanted to develop here? Steinheimer: That's one thing I knew I had to develop, yes, indeed. Warren: So tell me more about that. Tell me how did that come to be. How did you get that up and running? Steinheimer: Well, it was a slow process, because the law school was so small when 
I came here that it was kind of a matter of the students who were in the school being absorbed by the profession here in Virginia pretty much just on a word-of-mouth kind of basis. But as we got more students coming to the school, a larger school, and students from a lot of places other than Virginia, we had to broaden our horizons about where they were going to find employment. 
So part of my job as dean was to travel about at bar functions and meetings, and by visiting with my lawyer contacts around the country, to try to whip up some interest in trying out our students, seeing if we could expand the employment horizons of the law school. Now, that's a slow process, but I think we've done a pretty good job of it and our students--now you can get that kind of information and you would be interested in it from our placement office. And you'll find our students are going out quite widely over the country now in their professional [unclear]-­
Warren: Do you have any real star situations that you remember, where people you 
brought in that you were particularly excited about, law firms that you were able to match up with students that you're particularly proud of? Steinheimer: Not individual instances, but I will simply say that for the most part, our students who have been placed for the first time in law firms across the country have, very fortunately for us, usually performed with some distinction, and that has meant that those employers who tried our product have been interested and anxious to come back and soak up some more of them. It's a gradual process of developing your reputation in that way that your employment pictures expands. Warren: I need to turn the tape over.