Wilson interview

[Begin Tape 2, Side 2]
Warren: Last question. I have not seen it, but Frank says that for a while there, there was
a very intermittent publication called The Spectator, and that you had a relationship with
it that was not always compatible.

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Wilson: Yes. The Spectator magazine came into being in the last half of the eighties
sometime, '86 or '87. It was subsidized by national conservative groups. William Buckley
is on the board, for example, of this one group, and Kenneth—I can't think of Kenneth's
last name. He's the class of 1971, is the director of this foundation.

         They took it upon themselves to be alarmed at the political correctness movement
in America and selected out several institutions from the Dartmouth Review. I mean,
several institutions, say Dartmouth, on the East Coast chiefly, to stem the tide of this left-
wing subversive political correctness movement. It was anathema of, you can imagine,
the black studies, women studies, African-American cultural centers, feminist studies,
lesbian and gay things, of course, [unclear].

         I'm not dismissing political correctness as an ephemeral thing. I think it has
become absurd in certain places. It needs an attitudinal formulation. But I have never
been, frankly, able to take it as seriously as the rest of the country seems to take it.

         The Spectator had a—so they were subsidized by that group, and, frankly, they did
editorial leads from that group. So the subject of the week might be affirmative action,
and what I'm guessing is that the editors then had the task of taking the conservative line
on affirmative action and using local examples to try to flesh out a story that looks to be
particularly local rather than national. That's just a guess.

         Because they were so hard pressed at Washington and Lee, a curricularly very
conservative place. The faculty aren't as conservative as the curriculum is. But there
aren't any women studies majors at Washington and Lee. We used to be said to be
retrograde in respect to some of these things. The very fact that there was a person in the
dean of students' office in the person of Anece McCloud who was responsible for
minority student affairs and tried to help minority students fit into the Washington and
Lee community with somewhat greater ease than otherwise would be the case, that was
anathema to these groups. [unclear] was a special target, and still is, I think.

         They got into a big donnybrook with our historian, young assistant professor, who
was a very good teacher. She left. She got pilloried, and so did I, on the cover of this
magazine. It was a mean-spirited thing. It was a cover with a picture of a secretary with
her face interposed, so they were making her a clerical person by subtle—not too subtle—
pictographic manipulation. But she opened herself up to their full-bore attention when
she went to two or three of the advertisers in The Spectator magazine and said, "Do you
realize what kind of magazine you're supporting?" You know, she knew these people in
the community—Buster Lewis at the floral shop and so on. Of course, the next time The
Spectator guy came down to place an ad, they said, "You know, your faculty aren't very
enthused about this. I'm not sure we ought to continue our ad."

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         "What! She's trying to exercise prior constraint, a First Amendment sin of the worst
sort." You know, they elevated this.

         Anyway, I had differences of view with them, but I never took it seriously. I mean,
I honestly didn't. Neither did many people in the community. They sent it out to alums,
and they would always have an issue at homecoming weekend, which would be "Here's
the place going to hell in a handbasket" kind of issue. And they didn't like me very much,
the early editors. They didn't know me very well. They are capable in a few instances of
manipulating stories and telling a distorted story or, I thought in a couple of cases,
downright dishonest.

         I called the editor in once to visit with him. He became a pretty good friend,
actually. Well, not a friend. Cameron [unclear] was different. But anyway, we had a little
playful exchange, but the faculty didn't take it seriously. Most of the students didn't,
actually. It was a foreign [unclear], really.

         I wish I could think of this scholastic something foundation that—Ken Cribbs.
Now it's coming back. Ken Cribbs is this alumnus' name who's executive director or
president or whatever of this foundation.
Warren: That's very interesting that it's outside money coming in.
Wilson: Oh, yes. Of course, they don't say it quite that way. They simply say, "We are
not dependent on the university for any funding, or student government."
Warren: Was this openly known by everyone that the money was coming from this
source?
Wilson: Not really. You can't—I mean, I didn't see their books, but I know that's true.
How much of their money, whether they got some from parents, you know, students are
writing home to parents all the time to support this and that, the Mock Convention to The
Spectator.

         A lot of people applauded this. This magazine was holding up tradition. Of
course, they were very anti the coed thing. They came in a little late for that, but they had
the retrospective view that it's probably a bad idea. But nobody paid attention to that. By
that time, it was self-evident it was right for the university.

         It's really kind of funny. I never took them very seriously. I honestly didn't. I did
not wake up at night worrying about The Spectator, but some of my faculty colleagues
did, especially the women. They felt it was especially inimical to issues important to
women, as well as undergraduate women and women faculty. Well, that's enough said
about that.
Warren: You've been extremely generous and patient with me. Do you have any final
thing you want to say to wrap this up?

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Wilson: No, really not.
Warren: One thing I want to tell you is that Lydia Miller from the development office is
in the same building where Frank and I are. I told her I was coming to see you, and she
said, "Oh, oh, President Wilson. We still have some of his letters. We just keep them
because they're so beautifully written."
Wilson: That's nice.
Warren: She said, "He could say so much in so little, and he was just a model for us all." I
thought that, as somewhat of a writer myself, I really admire someone who can say a lot
in a little.
Wilson: They think I'm down here writing a great American novel, you know. I told
people I was going to write a novel. I've never written a word of fiction, except as The
Spectator would interpret it. [Laughter]
Warren: Well, I find fiction very intimidating. Just the thought of it is very intimidating.
Wilson: Yeah. I wouldn't even know whether I'd do it first person or third at this point.
But I've got my Irish things up there, you know, and I enjoy being down here thinking
about things like that.
Warren: I have one—you can say it in a phrase—last question. What year were you in a
championship football team? Frank wants to work that in.
Wilson: In 1952.
Warren: Frank will give me gold stars now because I got that question answered. Thank
you very much.
[End of Interview]_

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