JACKIE WOOD

                                         July 11, 1996

                                                —

                                        Mame Warren,
                                          Interviewer

Warren: This is Mame Warren. Today is the eleventh of July, 1996. I’m here at
Lexington, Virginia, with Jackie Wood, who is here attending the Alumni College. Your
connection is not really so much with Washington and Lee as with our nearby college of
Sweet Briar. You were just starting to tell me about how extensive your family
connection is with this regard. Can you say what you just said again?
Wood: When I entered Sweet Briar, I was the first girl to ever go to Sweet Briar whose
mother had attended, and I stayed four years and graduated. Then I was fortunate
enough to have two daughters who graduated and a granddaughter who went two
years, but we had a little too much family at that time since I was employed by Sweet
Briar at that time. She transferred to William and Mary, and I was with Sweet Briar.

         I have been a very active alumna because I love the college and its surroundings,
and so then I went back out there to live and to work for twenty-one years. I went back
out in 1955 and stayed for twenty-one years. I guess I started as the director of the
alumnae. Then they made a department of the college that included the alumnae office,
the Office of Development of Fund Raising and Public Relations. I guess maybe by that
time they didn’t know what to do with me, so I became vice president for that
department. But there were such good people, such wonderful people in those offices,
sometimes I wonder what I did.

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Warren: You’re very gracious, I’m sure.
Wood: No, but that’s true. I lived there on the campus for twenty-one years. So, all
told, twenty-five years of my life have been spent on that campus, which comprises
3,500 acres, so there’s plenty of room.
Warren: Is it that big?
Wood: Just about. I guess some has been sold. The Virginia Foundation for the Arts,
which is on the land of a twin plantation of Sweet Briar, was owned and still owned. I
guess they’re close to 3,500. You’ve never been there?
Warren: You know, I went over once years ago. I need to go back. In fact, as part of my
research I’m planning to go around to all the different women’s colleges and see what
everybody’s been telling me about.

         So let’s go back to your student days. Let’s kind of work through
chronologically. Where did you come from originally?
Wood: From Florence, Alabama, which is in the northern part of Alabama in the
Tennessee Valley.
Warren: What attracted you to Sweet Briar?
Wood: Well, in those days, you didn’t choose, really, where you wanted to go. I mean,
your mother told you. At least, my mother told me where I was going. She had gone to
Sweet Briar and loved it. I always knew that I wanted to go away to college and was
fortunate enough. Those were the Depression days. The Depression at Sweet Briar in
1930. At that time, there weren’t so many girls that could go from that part. It never
occurred to me not to go to college and not to go to what I thought was a first-rate
college. I liked to study. You know, it was just accepted. My closest, my one close friend
was at Hollins, that I grew up with, and one was at Randolph-Macon.
Warren: Oh, that’s great.
Wood: And I had thought I’d like to go to one of those, but Mother said no. [Laughter]
Needless to say, I’m glad I did.

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Warren: So when you arrived, surely it didn’t take very long before you heard about
this men’s college on the other side of the mountain.
Wood: Oh, I knew about Washington and Lee before I came because, you see, there
were lots of Alabama boys, young men, at Washington and Lee. I had known a lot of
them then. I knew about VMI. think, of course, that was part of it. But at that time, I
don’t think it was our main object, but it didn’t take long.
Warren: Can you remember the first time you came over and saw Washington and
Lee?
Wood: Yes, I came over to a dance at VMI my freshman year. The VMI boys had to be
in at certain time. The women from various colleges, most of us stayed at the Robert E.
Lee Hotel. Now, when my mother came over here to dances, she stayed in either the
faculty homes or places like that, but we all stayed at the Robert E. Lee Hotel.

         The boys, the VMI cadets, had to be in at a certain time. So we usually had what
was called a late date with a Washington and Lee boy. So it was kind of a combination
when you came sometimes. But, there soon, I have to think, I believe after my
sophomore year I never did come back to VMI. That was a little too convoluted, I mean,
to do both. [Laughter]

         Actually, we always had to be chaperoned. A chaperone came from the college
with us, and when we went out, we signed out with the chaperone and then were
signed back in at the time we were supposed to be in. But then we left again. [Laughter]
Warren: How did you manage that?
Wood: Well, once, I remember once when we came over and visited in the spring, and
the person who was the chaperone was the wife of—she was from France. She was the
wife of the junior year in France, head of the junior year in French program at Sweet
Briar. The French Department didn’t have that program at that time. She couldn’t speak
English very well. So she really never knew what we were doing, but we behaved
pretty well, as well as I remember.

                                                                                                                         3
Warren: So for people younger, explain the concept of late dating. Someone my age or
younger doesn’t really know what that means. I know what that means because I have
done the interviews, but most people don’t.
Wood: Well, it was just too early to go in, and we would go to a fraternity house. The
fraternity houses, of course, and now they do again, you know, have housemothers.
There would be dancing, and there would be a certain amount of drinking, even then. I
don’t remember, I honestly don’t remember the girls drinking. A great many smoked,
not knowing at that time what it did to one, I guess. I guess if somebody was in love
with somebody, then I don’t what they did. [Laughter] I wasn’t privy to it. Anyway, it
seems now such good, clean, wholesome fun. Maybe it wasn’t. I don’t know.

         We often moved in groups. Goodness, you’re asking me—
Warren: You’re doing great.
Wood: I did not meet my husband, who was a Washington and Lee graduate, because
he was out of college at the time. He had graduated. But I heard a lot about him,
because he had been captain of the football team, and he had led Fancy Dress. He was a
member of ODK and others, and I had heard a lot about him. I met him later, and I later
married him, the year I was out of college—no, one year. And we kept up. I always
came back to the games.
Warren: Describe a fraternity party in your day.
Wood: I guess it was very much the same as it is now. There would be talking, dancing,
singing. I’m not being any help, because I don’t really think that part of young people
maybe have changed as much. I know one thing. Of course, in those days, we had to
come over as a group. But I know I’ve been so astounded in the last few years, and this
is showing my—when girls from the colleges, now that they all have cars, come without
dates. It would never any more have occurred to come to one of the men’s colleges if
you weren’t invited and if you didn’t have a date. Often you came with friends. You
didn’t have to be really planning to marry somebody or going with one.

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         One big difference that I remember more, not just fraternity parties, but at the
formal dances like Fancy Dress and finals and things like that, there was always lots of
extra men, and you didn’t just dance with one person. If you didn’t get what was called
a rush, you know, then you felt very left out. To see these young people go to a party, I
saw this with my own girls, going with one and dancing the whole time with him.
Suppose he wasn’t a good dancer? Suppose you didn’t really like him?

         One of the funniest things I remember, and I hadn’t thought about it in a long
time, was a young man from Lynchburg called Peyton Winfrey, speak of the dead, but
he was a good friend, actually, of the person I married. Peyton and I were very good
friends, but Peyton often had lots of girls, in other words, what you would call
somebody, I guess. Once when he finally graduated from Washington and Lee—it took
him more than four years—he could not ask at the final dance, you always wore a white
dress and carried red roses, and Peyton didn’t know which one of these girls to choose
from. So I had to be his date. I had to be “in the figure,” it was called. I haven’t thought
that term. Yes, you were “in the figure,” you know, the seniors with their dates or girls
with the red roses. I remember being in the figure with Peyton because he couldn’t
choose between his girls. Actually, he was a close friend and eventually godfather of my
first daughter, because we were friends for a long time. But there were things like that.
Maybe it wasn’t more wholesome. I don’t know. I think the young people today are
great, too. But I don’t think they have as much fun as we did.
Warren: I think it would be a lot of fun to be rushed while I was dancing. [Laughter]
I’m afraid I grew up going with one person and staying with one person. And you’re
right, they weren’t always good dancers. [Laughter]
Wood: One thing, being lucky in one way, not being tall, you always could count on
the small boys, the shorter boys, dancing with you when sometimes they didn’t choose
the better-looking tall, slender girls.
Warren: You mentioned the figure. I didn’t know they did that at the finals dance, too.

                                                                                                                         5
Wood: As well as Fancy Dress.
Warren: I’ve heard about it at Fancy Dress, but no one’s ever described it to me. Can
you describe it?
Wood: You know, I don’t remember. It was probably just parading in your white dress.
It’s a little like a debutante thing now—white dress and parade. And they played
College Friendships. Has anybody mentioned that song to you?
Warren: Tell me about it.
Wood: Well, it was a song like "College friendships soon must sever," something about
parting and I can’t remember the words, and since I can’t sing, perhaps if I could sing.
But something about the parting day, friendships. I don’t know. Some of these alumni
could tell you. It always, I’m sure, ended with everyone singing the Washington and Lee
Swing.
Warren: Was that a popular song?
Wood: Oh, yes.
Warren: Did you dance to the swing?
Wood: Oh, I’m sure we must have. Get somebody to sing it for you.
Warren: Okay. Now the Fancy Dress. Did you come to a Fancy Dress?
Wood: Yes.
Warren: Tell me what that was like.
Wood: I cannot remember the themes, because my last two years I was in love. Oh, one
year when we were coming, Sweet Briar was quarantined because there was diphtheria,
so we didn’t come that year. You could look up in the annuals. They always have a
theme for Fancy Dress. Somebody surely told you this. A theme for Fancy Dress. And
depending on what your date was, your costume was very much in accordance with
him. Look in some of the old annuals, and you’ll see a lot of it.
Warren: What was it like to participate in it? It must have been a big deal to get these
costumes.

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Wood: Oh, it was a big deal. It was fun. I don’t mean to be inarticulate. It was exciting.
You always wondered, of course, if you would be popular, I guess. Get somebody
who’s only been out of college twenty-five or thirty years to tell you. [Laughter]
Warren: But, you know, they don’t do the costumes anymore.
Wood: No. It would be a medieval theme with maybe Richard the Lionhearted. I’m
making that up, because I honestly don’t remember, but it was always a theme of a
country or an event. Those annuals would tell you. They still have Fancy Dress.
Everybody went. That was a big difference then. You went and you stayed ‘til it was
over. It wasn’t coming and going and sitting around.
Warren: Was going out to dinner a part of it? Was having a meal part of Fancy Dress,
or was it just the dance itself?
Wood: Oh, no. There would always be a whole group that would go out to dinner
together. We did have automobiles. [Laughter]
Warren: What were the restaurants then? Where would you go out to dinner?
Wood: I can’t remember the names of any. I saw one that’s still in existence as we
drove over here the other day coming through Natural Bridge. We often went over to
Natural Bridge because that hotel was there. There were several places that would now
be called bed and breakfasts, places out in the surrounding country where we went for
meals. Nice restaurants. I should have done some research, perhaps.
Warren: Oh, no, that’s my job.
Wood: If I had thought about that.
Warren: I just want what you can remember. So your husband went to Washington
and Lee, but you didn’t date him while he was here.
Wood: No, because he was five years older than I, so he had been out, but he still came
back at times. A lot of them who hadn’t been out long kept up their affiliation.
Warren: And he was on the football team?
Wood: No, he was captain of the basketball team when he was here. There’s a picture

                                                                                                                         7
of him in the annual, because he and a Sweet Briar gal, as a matter of fact, with whom
he was in love with at that time, he was the assistant leader of Fancy Dress. You know,
they always had somebody who led all of the figures, in charge, and Ernest was the
assistant. I was going through some things throwing out not long ago and found some
annuals. I’m sorry I did that before I knew, but the annuals are here in the library, of
course. They would give you a good picture of the social life.
Warren: Yes, but it so much more fun to hear about something, to hear it rather than
just reading it. Those are just pictures, and they don’t flesh it out like you can. Did you
used to come to sporting events?
Wood: Oh, yes. Oh, of course. Well, Alabama was a great football power at that time.
University of Alabama always has been. I don’t know whether you’re a sports fan or
not.
Warren: I know about Bear Bryant.
Wood: Well, Bear Bryant wasn’t there. Actually, Alabama—well, they used to have the
Rose Bowl. The best team in the West, the best team in the East. It wasn’t divided as it is
now into conferences. Alabama went to the Rose Bowl a couple of times. I was very
much interested in sports, had been brought up interested in football.

         I remember the first football game I ever saw in Virginia. It was between
Hamden-Sydney and Washington and Lee. It was in a stadium near Lynchburg. It was
not on either college campus. I was so pleased. I was a freshman. I was so pleased to
have a date with a Washington and Lee boy. I don’t remember his name. I watched the
game, and after about a quarter, I said, “Are you sure this is college football?”
[Laughter]

         He turned to me and said, “Of, course it is. It’s Washington and Lee and
Hamden-Sydney. Why do you ask?”

         And having little sense at age sixteen, I said, “Well, down in Alabama, where I
come from, the high schools play better ball than this.” Needless to say, he never asked

                                                                                                                         8
me for another date. [Laughter]
         After that, I learned to be just as dumb, but I couldn’t help laughing once at a

game over here when a girl turned to her date and said, “I’m not ignorant about
football as most girls are, because I really do understand it. But the only thing I don’t
understand is what do they mean when they first say ‘first down’ and they keep saying
‘first down.’" Well, everything’s built on that, and I thought, “Well, I’m not even going
to pretend to be that dumb. I just won’t say anything.” [Laughter]
Warren: That’s great.
Wood: We came to a lot of basketball games and a lot of the football games that were
played around. Of course, Washington and Lee played the University of Virginia at that
time and the University of North Carolina. That was the days before football was, when
it was really a sport—that’s not the right word—when it was really amateur and not on
the—I remember the last time Washington and Lee beat Virginia. That was a big
celebration. That was about twenty, twenty-five years ago. But sports were different
then.
Warren: So what would have happened when Washington and Lee beat UVA?
Wood: I guess they would have celebrated by right much drinking. [Laughter]
Warren: Did you go to that game?
Wood: Oh, yes. We all came over from Lynchburg. A group of alumni from all the
colleges, even now, give great support for University of Virginia football team, not so
much for Washington and Lee to have sports among their alumni in the sports field. I
don’t think there is as it was when the colleges and the universities were much more on
the same level athletically. But you’d have to talk to some of the men about that. They
would know.
Warren: Yes, but it’s fun to hear a woman’s point of view about these things.
Wood: But I don’t think most women enjoy sports as much as I did, I mean.
Warren: Was the concept of tailgating popular then?

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Wood: No.
Warren: It’s a new thing?
Wood: Yes. Now, you’re talking about when I was in college?
Warren: Yes.
Wood: No.
Warren: Did people have cars then?
Wood: Oh, sure, sure. With rumble seats and running boards.
Warren: Are you going to tell me some rumble-seat stories?
Wood: Yes, I can tell you a rumble seat. You’re making me think of things I haven’t—
on Sundays, when Washington and Lee boys would come over to Sweet Briar, and I
don’t know what happened at Randolph-Macon, but Mr. Beard [phonetic], who was the
night watchman at Sweet Briar and the only officer—there was no such thing as the
security guards they have everywhere now. I mean, it’s a whole other world. But your
dates had to be signed up at the gate. Mr. Beard was down at the gate, and your dates
had to be signed up to come in. I mean, he would check because they didn’t want boys
just roaming the campus. They were perfectly welcome if they had a date.

         A group of boys from Washington and Lee from Montgomery, Alabama, at that
time, they often came over. That particular Sunday, one decided to come without a
date. So just before they got to the Sweet Briar gate, they shut Ed Riggs up—I even
remember his name—in the rumble seat, you see, just temporarily, so when they
checked up their names, they could ride, come right on in. And they forgot Ed. I
remember, I looked around and said, “Ed Riggs didn’t come over this weekend?”

         They said, “Oh, my gosh!” They got him out in time. He didn’t suffocate.
[Laughter] But he almost did. I guess it isn’t funny, but we thought it was hilarious at
that time.
Warren: Did he think it was hilarious?
Wood: [Laughter] I don’t imagine he thought it was quite so funny. And sometimes

                                                                                                                       10
the boys, I remember this, Mr. Beard would stop, he would have the list and the boy
would look and say, “Oh, yes. There I am,” whether it was his name or not. “I’m going
to see Mary Jones.” And check it off. It seems so ridiculous now, but it was, I guess,
fun.
Warren: I think Washington and Lee boys were clever. If nothing else, they were very
clever.
Wood: Girls then did not go just to—you didn’t go with just one person. You went to
the University of North Carolina and to Virginia and to Washington and Lee to dances,
parties a certain number of weekends you were allowed for college until you were a
junior or senior. All the women’s colleges around here, you had a certain amount of
overnight time that you could be off campus.
Warren: So it was limited?
Wood: It was limited, the times that you could be away, but you could usually manage.
Warren: Do you have any memories of Washington and Lee boys truly sneaking on to
the campus?
Wood: At Sweet Briar?
Warren: Yes.
Wood: Oh, sure. And it was only on Sunday that they had to be signed up. I don’t
know why that really was. I don’t think that girls would have, I mean—I’m going to
have to think a minute. I think until, goodness, maybe your junior year, you couldn’t
have dates during the week. So I’m sure people did. I know this for a fact, Randolph-
Macon was much stricter than Sweet Briar. Their rules were much stricter than Sweet
Briar. You see, they were under the Methodists. They were affiliated with the Methodist
Church for a while. Maybe that accounted for it.

         But until your senior year, you were not allowed to ride in a car back and forth to
Lexington without a chaperone. You couldn’t ride into Lynchburg without a chaperone
with a boy until you were a senior. And, of course, that was absolutely ridiculous. I

                                                                                                                       11
mean, here we were going to—so I thought it was perfectly ridiculous. And so my
junior year, I just did what they called take senior privileges. I obeyed the rules that I
thought was sensible, like, well, I didn’t drink and not smoking in your room. You
knew you were asked to sign a pledge. If you didn’t, you’d be campused. You used to
be campused if you broke rules. You’ve never heard of that?
Warren: No. What does that mean?
Wood: You would have to be confined to the campus for a certain period of time. You
couldn’t go into town. You couldn’t go off the campus. You were restricted if you broke
certain rules. One of the girls would insist on doing it. They’d be smoking in their
rooms and then word would get out. There wasn’t designated smoking areas at that
time. There was no designated drinking areas. Do you remember when the women
colleges had May courts?
Warren: Tell me.
Wood: Well, it was a May Day celebration, and the prettiest girl on campus would be
the May Queen, and there would be a celebration like an English thing. There would be
parties and dances connected with the weekend on your campus. I remember once the
girl that could not run, you know, be elected May Queen, which would have been her
ambition to be at that time, because she had had a late date over at the University of
Virginia. It’s very interesting that girl that I was chatting with the other day, talking to
her the other day, she has just given a million dollars to spend, what she built for them
year before last. Miriam’s House for Mothers who are working, working mothers or
mothers that need housing at Sweet Briar, its called Miriam House. Now she’s given
two million, I think, to build up the same kind of facilities for children. I was laughing
at her the other day about her experience at Sweet Briar when she was confined and not
allowed to run to be May Queen because that was her punishment. Doesn’t that seem
funny? I know I’m not telling you what—because this is really not connected with
Washington and Lee.

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Warren: Oh, you’re doing great.
Wood: My connection with Washington and Lee has been more as an adult, in a way.
Warren: Well, let’s shift over to that. I really wanted your perspective as a student, but
let’s shift over to that.
Wood: It’s just been because I always liked Washington and Lee. And then when I was
with Sweet Briar and worked with the Alumni Association, there is an organization
called the American Alumni Council and College Public Relations Association. So at
meetings twice a year, one in a district and one national one where people from the
colleges and universities get together to discuss problems, opportunities, better ways to
do everything, and that has been so helpful to all of the colleges and universities. I used
to come over, I mean, got to know a lot of the professional people at Washington and
Lee at that time that came to those meetings.

         Then Washington and Lee started these summer programs, which we are
attending now, the first one thirteen or fourteen years ago, I came to the one, the
Elizabethan program. Then we took a trip. It was the first trip that Washington and Lee
did. That was to England in the summer of ’85, maybe. What’s this? ’96. Maybe ’84. So
I’ve been coming over every year to the summer program and then taking a trip. It’s
been a wonderful way to see and travel.
Warren: You probably see a lot of familiar people.
Wood: Oh, yes. I don’t how many are here this week. About eighty, I think. I looked
over, and I knew forty-seven of them before. I mean, I had been with forty-seven. Of
course, this is the twenty-sixth, you see they put the number on it.
Warren: You have one of the highest numbers of anybody.
Wood: Yeah. Actually, at Sweet Briar, we started the trips before Washington and Lee,
but we did not have this summer program before that prepares you. Sweet Briar still
has good trips. I went on a lot of those, but then I had to start paying my own way, I
preferred the Washington and Lee trips. But as long as I was at Sweet Briar and started

                                                                                                                       13
those trips there, it’s very different if it cost you $5,000 to go somewhere or if you go
free.
Warren: You want to have the best time you can. I understand you were with the
alumni. So were you at all involved once you became the administrator, say, in
discipline or anything like that? I was asking a young person today, I was telling him I
was going to be talking to you. I said, “What should I ask her?” And he said, “Ask her
what the best excuse was she ever heard from a Washington and Lee student for
something he was doing wrong.” You know, like if he was caught somewhere
sometime he shouldn’t have been.
Wood: Oh, but he would have to tell the truth. You know, a Washington and Lee guy
wouldn’t lie. [Laughter] I don’t know what it would be in that case. I don’t know.
Warren: Tell me what you mean by that. What’s your impression of the Honor System?
Wood: I have always thought it probably worked very, very well, and I thought it did
at Sweet Briar. Just as I said before, I thought girls—and I smoked at that time, I think,
part of the time, and I thought they were so foolish to smoke in their rooms instead of
the designated areas because there was always going to be somebody report it, then
people would be asked to sign whether they had done it or not. And you certainly
didn’t want to lie.

         I guess the only thing I can think of, when I came back my senior year, Mr.
Beard, the watchman, said, “Well, it’s nice to see you back, Miss Bond.” Because we
were always called Miss, even by our professors in class, of course. “Are you back to
visit?”

         I said, “Mr. Beard, I’m back for my senior year.”
         He said, “Your senior year? I thought you—” He said, “Well, you sure did take
senior privileges all last year, didn’t you?” [Laughter]
         If I had been asked, you know, I’m sure I would have been campused. I wouldn’t
have been expelled for that, but I would have been campused for that. I thought it was

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silly, those rules, and most girls did.
         I don’t know what a Washington and Lee guy would have done. I’m sure

somebody has told you one of my impressions I remember, one big change.
Washington and Lee gentlemen always wore coats and ties. Has anybody told you that?
Warren: No, tell me about it.
Wood: Well, instead of what they wear now, wore coats and ties to class. When they
passed each other on the campus, they said, “Good day, gentlemen.” I remember that.
That sounds stuffy, but it wasn’t.
Warren: They wouldn’t just say hello? They would say "Good day, gentlemen"?
Wood: Or they might say, “Hello, gentlemen.” But always spoke.
Warren: And if they knew each other’s name, would they use the name? Or would
they always say "gentlemen"?
Wood: Well, I guess, you would be passing them, they might say, "Good day, Henry."
I don’t know. I think it was usually "gentlemen."
Warren: That’s interesting. I didn’t realize that.
Wood: But that was a long time ago.
Warren: Now, can you remember? I mean, you’ve been a witness to Washington and
Lee over many years. Can you remember when that change started to happen in the
dress code? And what were the Sweet Briar girls’ reaction when the W&L guys
stopped wearing coats and ties?
Wood: Well, I don’t know what their reaction. They probably came—I couldn’t tell
you, but I remember that up until not too many years ago, girls would not wear pants
on the campuses. They wore skirts. If they had shorts on, they would wear a raincoat on
the campus, on the women’s colleges. They did until, gosh, in 1950s or sixties, I guess.
Or maybe wear pants, except riding clothes. That was always perfectly presentable if
you rode.

         I think the change in the sloppiness in their dress now is one thing I honestly
                                                                                                                       15
deplore, because I think—have you ever noticed how much better people behave when
they are dressed nicely? Young and old. I think it’s really sloppiness, their appearance.
I think it’s had a bad effect on the colleges. And I’m always astonished at how homely
the wonderful girls at Washington and Lee seem to be, as far as their appearance. They
dress just like the boys.
Warren: I need to turn the tape over.