December 13, 2007 Interview with Margaret Ellen Wade Harris By Richard Anderson [Items enclosed in brackets [ ] are not on the audio, but are editorial notes inserted for clarification or elaboration.] Richard Anderson: We’re doing an oral interview of Margaret Wade Harris for the Oral History Project of the Brownsburg Community Association Museum. Today’s date is December 13, 2007 and this interview is being conducted at 2671 Brownsburg Turnpike in Brownsburg, Virginia, and our interviewee is Margaret Wade Harris, and I’m going to ask her to say a few words to make sure this recording is recording. So Margaret, would you just give us your name and your address. Margaret Wade Harris: I’m Margaret Ellen Wade Harris, and I reside at 906 Royal Street, Staunton, Virginia and I’m delighted to be here today and give to the Historical Association as much information as my brain can spill out. Richard Anderson: Mrs. Harris, thank you for coming to do this interview today. We’ll go over some questions and you can answer them at your best recollection, what you recall of these subjects. Feel free to expand on them in any way you wish to. Let me just ask some preliminary questions. When did you live in Brownsburg? What years? Margaret Wade Harris: I was born May 2, 1929 in a home built by my grandfather, John Henry Potter [which is] presently in 2007 owned by Walter Lunsford [2651 Brownsburg Turnpike]. My family moved to Staunton in June-- it may have been July-- let’s say June 30, 1941. Richard Anderson: So you lived here between the time you were born and 1941. Margaret Wade Harris: Yes. Richard Anderson: And you were born in Brownsburg? Margaret Wade Harris: Yes, I was born in the house that Granddaddy John Henry Potter built. I was delivered by a midwife, Aunt Mariah Fisher who lived over on what we called then Raphine Hill. Her husband worked as a maintenance worker in Lexington [at VMI] and I can recall [him] going back and forth on a very deep brown horse. That’s the only way I know how to describe that. She attended my mother before my delivery, possibly that early morning and stayed with my family and my mother for three days. Richard Anderson: How big a family? Margaret Wade Harris: Eight. I was born in ’29 and I was the last one of four brothers and three sisters. Richard Anderson: And you’re the youngest? Margaret Wade Harris: Absolutely. Richard Anderson: And you lived in what is now the Lunsford house [2651 Brownsburg Turnpike]? Margaret Wade Harris: Yes. Richard Anderson: Did you live in that location the entire time? Margaret Wade Harris: Yes. Richard Anderson: What were the names of your parents? Margaret Wade Harris: My parents were Samuel Bell Wade married to Mary Annie Potter. Richard Anderson: Weren’t they both natives in Brownsburg? Margaret Wade Harris: Yes. My daddy was born on Swope Lane. The farm belonged to my grandfather, William Moore Wade. My mother was born in the old log house that sat in front of the Lunsford house that’s owned by the Lunsfords on that property. Richard Anderson: So there was another house in front of their house? Margaret Wade Harris: Yeah. If you’ll notice [now] going up the road there is a bank [in front of the Lunsford house]. As described to me by my mother, [there] was an old dirt road in the early 1800s and that was dug away, and all that excess dirt was made into that bank. The log house sat left of the new house. When Granddaddy’s mother died, he inherited all of the property, and probably during Grandma Potter’s lifespan, Granddaddy started building the present home. Richard Anderson: Was the log building taken down? Margaret Wade Harris: Yes, it was dismantled. It was dismantled and if you of course know about the building behind Doris and Walter [Lunsford] in their yard in the back, that at one time sat in the front corner of the yard, and that was Granddaddy Potter’s shop. He was a cobbler and a carpenter, and he proceeded then to build the new house, is what we called it [2651 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Richard Anderson: So how many generations of your family have lived in the Brownsburg area, more or less? Margaret Wade Harris: William Moore Wade married Mary Lou McClure and I pronounce that “MacLore”. The McClures have lived in this area and down through Augusta before Rockbridge was formed. So, I’m going to state about six generations. Richard Anderson: What did your father and mother do when you were living here? Were they engaged in any particular occupations? Margaret Wade Harris: My mother was a homemaker, and also a professional seamstress. She sewed clothing for anyone and everyone in Brownsburg. She sewed particularly for the teachers. Mother was very talented in that she could look at a piece of clothing or go to a shop and she could come home and get out newspaper or brown bags and make a pattern, and from that [make the clothing]. Richard Anderson: So she did a lot of sewing. Margaret Wade Harris: She did. She also did crocheting; beautiful pineapple design table cloths, which I’m very fortunate to have inherited some of those. She also did knitting. She made sweaters, and I also have a sweater that she had made. Very talented in that direction, and she was also very active in the church, which was the Lighthouse Church [formerly located between 2651 Brownsburg Turnpike and 2671 Brownsburg Turnpike] and that was owned by Mrs. Mamie Morris. Mother played the piano and she played the organ. She was the superintendent of the Sunday school. She did the ordering [of supplies] for the church. She taught Sunday School. She was a very active person. Richard Anderson: She had a big family too. Margaret Wade Harris: Absolutely, taking care of four brothers and three sisters. My father was what you’d call a finish carpenter. He did beautiful, beautiful work like moldings, cabinet work. Richard Anderson: Did he work on any of the houses in the Brownsburg area? Margaret Wade Harris: Yes. In particular, I do believe he helped to build the Patterson Barn. He made cabinets for the Whitesell’s kitchen [2664 Brownsburg Turnpike]. I can recall that. He made our dining room table, which is absolutely gorgeous. He made that out of walnut from up at Grandpa’s farm. He made brooms and he sold brooms. He also raised, I’ll call it popcorn [to sell]. [Mrs. Harris later provided the following information (which is not on the audio) related to her father’s work: He read the blueprints for construction of the “mail order” Sears Roebuck house [2669 Sterrett Road]; renovated kitchens in the Dice home [22 Hays Creek Road]; Mrs. Rosenell Patterson’s home [Sleepy Hollow at 2654 Sterrett Road]; and the East home [Breezy Hill at 1223 Hays Creek Road]. He did carpenter work on the stucco school building; the Withrow house [2693 Brownsburg Turnpike]; and the telephone company switchboard office apartment over the bank [2711 Brownsburg Turnpike]. He remodeled the downstairs (basement) for living quarters for the Roy Huffman home [2712 Brownsburg Turnpike] beside the Huffman Grocery.] Richard Anderson: Made from? Margaret Wade Harris: Yes, and he sold those [brooms]. He was in a business. My father was not educated as a CPA-- we call it a bookkeeper. He kept books for the Lucas Grocery which-- on your left hand side about-- the corner house before you get to Old South Antiques. Richard Anderson: Where Dick Barnes’ current house is [8 Hays Creek Road]. Margaret Wade Harris: Yes, and where the old store was, that has been torn down. My daddy-- Richard Anderson: That’s the same corner I think. Margaret Wade Harris: Yes, it is. He kept books for that store. Also he kept books for Mr. Humphrey’s store in Lexington, and Mr.-- but he kept those at the same time. He’d go from store to store and keep their books. Richard Anderson: How did he get into that business? Margaret Wade Harris: I really don’t know. He just had a “head” for figures. Richard Anderson: What were the ages of your sisters and your brothers? Who was the oldest? Margaret Wade Harris: Mom and Dad were married in 1908 and Thelma Elizabeth, the oldest was born in 1910. So I would say a space between each and every one was about maybe two and a half, three years until it came down to my youngest brother Bobby, and there’s seven years space between Bobby and I. Richard Anderson: Did your brothers and sisters stay in Brownsburg or did they leave? Margaret Wade Harris: No, they all stayed in Brownsburg until we left in 1941, and the reason for leaving then is because World War II was looming, and my father was a strict Democrat. That one ticket, that was it. He was Presbyterian but he was also a politician, and he kept up with the politics in our government, and he could see that the war definitely was looming, and the boys had to register at the Brownsburg School [to be drafted]. Richard Anderson: So they were all eligible to be called into the service. Margaret Wade Harris: Yes, at that time. They were above 18 years old. Richard Anderson: So he decided that it was a better place to be in Staunton? Margaret Wade Harris: Well he was looking for government work, is actually what he called it. He secured a job at the Norfolk Shipbuilding Company. I’m sure there’s another name for it, but that’s what I’ll call it, and there his talent was used as a finish carpenter. He finished the officers’ quarters in particular, and I have pictures of his beautiful work [on the battleships]. Richard Anderson: Was that in Staunton? Margaret Wade Harris: No, that’s in Norfolk, [Virginia]. The Norfolk Shipbuilding Company. Richard Anderson: So he actually went to Norfolk. Margaret Wade Harris: He went to Norfolk and then we secured residence in Staunton. Richard Anderson: What’s your first memory of Brownsburg? Margaret Wade Harris: Stillhouse Alley. Ok, I can recall my brothers going out in that alley and putting off firecrackers. Scared me to death. I had never heard such a loud noise. Richard Anderson: Was this at the Fourth of July or some other time? Margaret Wade Harris: Fourth of July and Christmas also. First was the Fourth of July. Richard Anderson: Who were some of your neighbors at that time? Margaret Wade Harris: On our right hand side was the last name of Carroll. Tribby was her name. She was Tribby Hartless. Tribby Hartless married Otis Carroll, and there were two sons, Leon and Curtis. [This house was a tavern owned by Martin Potter, my great-great uncle.] Richard Anderson: So they lived to the right of your house. Margaret Wade Harris: Yes, and then to the left of course was this home, Mrs. Morris’ home. But in Brownsburg then we were all neighbors. Across the road from us were Aggie and the [Glasgow] Craney family, their two daughters, Ruth and Frances, and they had family living with them by the name of Gilmore and Harrison. On the diagonal side from us were Laura and Letcher Pleasants. I don’t recall. Then of course were the Whitesells of the funeral home, and on down the way was a family of Dices. Beyond there then was the family of Mr. Jim Bosworth. Richard Anderson: So, you all lived pretty much together. Margaret Wade Harris: We did. Well, I may be getting a little bit ahead, but Granddaddy Wade on Swope Lane owned an acreage of around 325 acres, and during the Depression it really didn’t bother the Wade family as far as we had plenty-- maybe not plenty financially-- but the woods were plentiful of wood, we cut wood, Granddaddy raised hogs and cattle, milk cows, ducks, turkeys, fowl, so we had plenty, and Daddy was the type of person, he would share. There was always a hog for families in the community that he saw really needed it, and there was also a milk cow for them. And then, that cow would be butchered and [the meat divided]. And then he had cattle, and we had plenty of food. There were two gardens up there. One was an acre of potatoes, so I mean, that’s a lot of potatoes, but we shared. We shared with anyone who was in need. [Blacks were his favorites to receive help with food and wood.] Richard Anderson: So did your brothers and sisters and yourself go up to help out on the farm? Margaret Wade Harris: Well I didn’t. I was a little young, but I went up and got in the way. Yes, they did. Richard Anderson: The family helped out. Margaret Wade Harris: Absolutely. Well, and other persons, other men here in the neighborhood who knew they were going to get some of the meat and garden supplies. Richard Anderson: Did you have other relatives who lived in the Brownsburg area, besides your grandfather and grandmother? Margaret Wade Harris: Yes. I’m speaking of Granddaddy Wade on Swope Lane. I had another grandfather, great grandfather, Jacob Brubeck Wade where Nancy and Dan Cook now own on Raphine Road [1593 Raphine Road], and Jacob Brubeck Wade married Jane Amelia Moore, and when she came to marriage she brought 200 acres as a dowry and Granddaddy owned quite a bit of acreage also, so they were in the vicinity. Also, James Franklin Wade who was the brother of Jacob Brubeck Wade, he had the mill [Wade’s Mill at 55 Kennedy Wades Mill Loop]. Also the McClures were in the outlying areas. [Other relatives included the Runkle, Arehart, Potter, Moore, Dice, Huffman, Clemmer and Lucas families.] Richard Anderson: So there were other families around. Margaret Wade Harris: Oh, yes. Also, the Runkles lived close to Rockbridge Baths, which is owned by the Bares now [662 Dry Hollow Road]. I come into that too, the descendants of the Earharts [now Arehart]; that’s the German side of the family. Richard Anderson: Let’s go on to schools. I assume you attended schools in the area. Margaret Wade Harris: Absolutely. I attended Brownsburg School. Richard Anderson: What grades did you attend? Margaret Wade Harris: I attended one through six. Richard Anderson: Do you remember names of any of your teachers? Margaret Wade Harris: I certainly do. Well, let’s see, Mollie Sue [Whipple] of course. Mollie Sue Hull [Whipple], first grade. Second grade was-- Richard Anderson: Did you have Mollie Sue in first grade? Margaret Wade Harris: Yes. Second grade was Mrs. Ruebush. Third grade was Mrs. Williams, and the fourth grade was, I believe, Mrs. Buchanan. I had a Mrs. Cummings and it seems like-- I’ve spoken with other girls that have attended the same classes with me. They do not recall a Mrs. Cummings, but I do. She may have been a substitute. And of course there was Ocie Ellen Trimmer who was the principal. [Rosenell Patterson was principal before Miss Trimmer. Mr. Irby was district School Superintendent.] Richard Anderson: How big were those classes? Margaret Wade Harris: I’d say the first grade would have been maybe 14, maybe larger. Richard Anderson: Were the students generally from Brownsburg or nearby? Margaret Wade Harris: At the beginning of the school, yes, they were. Of course there were school buses that went back as far as Rockbridge Baths, but they didn’t go as far as Goshen or some of the outlying areas that they do now. Richard Anderson: Did you have any special experiences attending Brownsburg School? Margaret Wade Harris: Well, yes. Since I lived down here on the corner, and the school of course was only a short distance for me to walk. [I played characters in the senior plays. I was the “guinea pig” for Home Economics food, and I modeled students’ sewing.] Richard Anderson: You didn’t have to take the school bus. Margaret Wade Harris: No way. After school my brothers and I, and my older sisters would go back to school and Ocie Ellen Trimmer, she would play basketball with us. We played football, touch football. We did track. We would do what she called back then was physical education and just really enjoyed it. The school was used a lot, yes. Richard Anderson: You left here in ’41. You were still in school at that point. Margaret Wade Harris: Yes. I transferred. Richard Anderson: You transferred up to Staunton after that. How many buildings were at the school at that point? Margaret Wade Harris: Well my first grade was in the old academy. Richard Anderson: So were you there when the new building was built? Margaret Wade Harris: Yes. As a matter of fact I possess a program from the dedication. I really don’t recall. Richard Anderson: I think it was supposed to have been built-- at least I was told it was built back in 1938. Does that sound about right? Margaret Wade Harris: That is probably right because ’38, ’39, ’40, ’41. Yes, I was in three grades in the new building. Richard Anderson: So you had three of your grades in the new building. Margaret Wade Harris: Yes. Richard Anderson: But when you started you were in the original academy, and that was torn down, is that correct? Margaret Wade Harris: I’m sorry to say, it certainly was.