January 5, 2008 Interview with Eleanor Franklin Hawkins By Isabelle Chewning [Text enclosed in brackets [ ] is not on the audio file, and has been inserted for clarification.] Isabelle Chewning: Today is January 5. My name is Isabelle Chewning and I’m in Takoma Park, Maryland with Mrs. Hawkins to interview her for the Brownsburg Museum. Mrs. Hawkins can you tell me what your full name is? Eleanor Hawkins: I am Eleanor Franklin Hawkins. Isabelle Chewning: And will you tell me, please, when you were born? Eleanor Hawkins: I was born February 26, 1928. Isabelle Chewning: So you’re 79. Eleanor Hawkins: I’m 79. Isabelle Chewning: Just about ready to turn 80. Big birthday coming up! Eleanor Hawkins: Big birthday. Isabelle Chewning: And I understand that you grew up in the Brownsburg area. Were you born in Brownsburg? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, I was born in Brownsburg as far as I -- I don’t know too much. All I know is that I was born in Brownsburg and I think, now I’m not sure, my grandmother was a — I don’t know how you would put her, but I think it was like midwife. Isabelle Chewning: What was her name? Eleanor Hawkins: Mary Jane Franklin. Isabelle Chewning: She was there and assisted in your birth? Eleanor Hawkins: Right. Isabelle Chewning: Did she live nearby? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, she did. Isabelle Chewning: And where you living? Where was your family when you were born? Eleanor Hawkins: We were on the Wade Farm [Castle Carbury, 34 Beard Road]. Isabelle Chewning: And that’s that big farm out near New Providence [Presbyterian] Church? Eleanor Hawkins: Right. It used to be a little house that sit there, but it had—it was accidentally burned some years way back. After I left. After we moved from there. And we moved from there and went to the Martin farm. You know where the Martin farm is? [The main house on this farm was the one currently occupied by Ann Beard at 3475 Brownsburg Turnpike.]. And we lived there [at 3569 Brownsburg Turnpike] until I came to Washington after my father died. Isabelle Chewning: Please tell me what your parent’s names were. Eleanor Hawkins: Zack and Esterline Franklin. Isabelle Chewning: Everybody I’ve interviewed spoke so highly of your father. Eleanor Hawkins: Is that right? Isabelle Chewning: He was so well respected in the community, I think. Eleanor Hawkins: Well, that’s very kind. Isabelle Chewning: How about your brothers and sisters? Your sister [Virginia Bell Franklin, interviewed for the Brownsburg Oral History Project in December 2007] told me some of them, but if you could help me put them in the right order. Eleanor Hawkins: Henry was the oldest. Isabelle Chewning: What was his full name? Did he have a middle name? Eleanor Hawkins: I don’t know. I just knew him [as] Henry. Then one was named—another one named Mack. Isabelle Chewning: He was next, after Henry? Eleanor Hawkins: I think so. Then my sister came in there, Mary, and Katherine. Isabelle Chewning: Did she spell her name with a “C” or a “K”? Eleanor Hawkins: I think she spelled her name with a “C” [Asbury United Methodist Church cemetery records indicate that her name was spelled “Katherine,” and it will be spelled that way for consistency throughout this document]. And then after Katherine it was maybe George, then Virginia, the one that you spoke to, then Margaret. There was another brother in there, Edward, and then Daniel, and then myself, Eleanor. Isabelle Chewning: You were the baby of the family. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, I was the youngest of the family. Isabelle Chewning: Your mother [Esterline Franklin] died when you very young, is that right? Eleanor Hawkins: Very young, when I was about three or four something like that, about three. I don’t even remember her. No remembrance too much. I don’t remember her. Isabelle Chewning: Do you know what she died of? Eleanor Hawkins: No, I don’t. Isabelle Chewning: Did your sisters help to raise you? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, my two older sisters, they’d help with the younger ones, Mary and Katherine. Isabelle Chewning: And they helped raise all of… Eleanor Hawkins: Yes. Isabelle Chewning: That was a big job for them. Eleanor Hawkins: It was a big job. Isabelle Chewning: Did your grandparents live in Brownsburg too? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, they lived right across from us out on that road that—I don’t know what they call that road, where ya’ll’s church is [New Providence Presbyterian Church]. I mean they’ve got a name for it now. Isabelle Chewning: I think it’s called Brownsburg Turnpike. Eleanor Hawkins: Oh, okay. Turnpike. [Laugh] Isabelle Chewning: [Laugh] Turnpike! Right. Eleanor Hawkins: Well anyway, we lived here. My grandmother then lived across the field, and we have to say across the field. And they went on that road that said Raphine [Raphine Road]. You know about Raphine? Isabelle Chewning: Yes. I see. Do you remember your grandparents, at all? Eleanor Hawkins: Oh yes, yes. I remember my grandmother very well. Isabelle Chewning: Were these your father’s parents? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, those were my father’s parents, but I don’t remember my mother’s family. Isabelle Chewning: And they were the Haliburtons? Eleanor Hawkins: That’s right. That’s right. Isabelle Chewning: But you remember some of your aunts and uncles. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, I can remember Aunt Maggie and Uncle Dude [William Haliburton). Uncle Andrew [Haliburton] and all them good people, Aunt Edna. You knew Edna [Pleasants]? Isabelle Chewning: I did. So Edna was your aunt? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, she was my aunt. That was my mother’s sister. And we had first cousins. Isabelle Chewning: So was Willie Howard [Pleasants] your first cousin? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, Willie Howard was my first cousin. And Clarence [Pleasants]. And then I had some cousins that lived in Lexington who I used to go to a lot of times when I was younger. I would go and spend the night there. You know Maggie Pleasants, her and her family. I used to go up there. They used to live in Brownsburg but they moved to Lexington. And I would go there and spend the night with them a whole lot. Isabelle Chewning: So you spent a lot of time in Lexington, then. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes. I went to school there [the segregated school for blacks, Lylburn Downing School]. And made friends with people. And I met people from Glasgow and Buena Vista. I met a lot of people. Isabelle Chewning: Could you tell me what you remember about going to school in Brownsburg? Eleanor Hawkins: Well, the only thing I remember is walking them cold roads. [Laugh] Because we didn’t live in Brownsburg, you know. We lived out on the farm, and we used to walk to school. And then, in the later years, my brother Dan, which you know has passed now, him and I used to ride a bicycle. Isabelle Chewning: Ride a bicycle to school? Eleanor Hawkins: Ride a bicycle to school. And sometimes he would tell me, “You get on the bicycle and you wait for me at the foot of the hill.” I’d ride on and leave him! [Laugh] Isabelle Chewning: [Laugh] Oh, you were mean to him! Eleanor Hawkins: But him and I used to ride the bicycle. Isabelle Chewning: Did you take turns? Eleanor Hawkins: No, we’d ride together. We’d ride out together. But see now, pumping up hill, that’s not the easiest. [Laugh] Isabelle Chewning: How much older was he than you? Eleanor Hawkins: He was two years older than I. Him and I came up together, mostly, because all of the rest of them were much older than I, because my sister that lives here [Virginia Franklin], she’s about eight years old than I am. Isabelle Chewning: Do you remember your teacher at school? Eleanor Hawkins: Oh, yes, Miss Carrie Peters. Isabelle Chewning: She was a good teacher I’ve heard from people. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, she was a very, very good person, we’ll put it that way. She was a good teacher and a good person. Isabelle Chewning: How many children were in the school? Do you have any idea? Eleanor Hawkins: There was quite a few, we’ll say it was quite a few. You know how that was. And everybody would be there, and this class would go up and she’d teach that one, and then another class would go up. That’s how it was in a one room school house. Isabelle Chewning: Did the older students help the younger ones? Eleanor Hawkins: Right. Right. And we had fun. We’ll put it that way. We had fun. Isabelle Chewning: How was the school heated in the winter? Eleanor Hawkins: We had one of them big stoves that put out nice heat. Isabelle Chewning: Did she have to keep the fire up? Or did some of the boys help? Eleanor Hawkins: I think the boys, the older boys, they would go out and help and get the fire started. Isabelle Chewning: And so how many years did you go to school in Brownsburg? Eleanor Hawkins: I think I went to the fourth grade or fifth grade or something like that. Isabelle Chewning: And then you mentioned that the schools were consolidated? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, the schools were consolidated and we rode the bus. We’d leave home about 7 o’clock and we didn’t get back home until around about 5:00 or 5:30. Isabelle Chewning: And you went all the way into Lexington? Eleanor Hawkins: I went all the way into Lexington. Isabelle Chewning: Who drove your bus? Eleanor Hawkins: Howard Pleasants. Which was Cousin Howard. Isabelle Chewning: And how many children from Brownsburg went with you to school [in Lexington]? Was it a big group? Eleanor Hawkins: It was right many. It was quite a few. And we would pick up children from Raphine, and then we’d pick up children from Fairfield. A certain amount, they went to Lexington. Then, a certain amount, they would be dropped into Fairfield and they went to school, elementary school in Fairfield. Isabelle Chewning: Oh, I see. Someone had told me -- I think Sammy Dock Stewart -- I don’t know if you know him. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, I know Sammy. Isabelle Chewning: He told me he had gone to school in Fairfield, I think, for a little while. Eleanor Hawkins: Sammy? Yes, I guess he did. Yes, I know Sammy. Isabelle Chewning: Who were some of your classmates? Do you remember? Eleanor Hawkins: It’s been so long, you know. I know the Craneys, Frances and Ruth. Isabelle Chewning: Were they older than you? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, they were older than I. Isabelle Chewning: Did they go to school in Lexington? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, they went to school in Lexington. And Margaret Shoultz. Do you know her? Isabelle Chewning: No. Eleanor Hawkins: But you know the Shoultz’s? Isabelle Chewning: I know Frank. Eleanor Hawkins: Margaret went to school and Frank. Isabelle Chewning: And Dorothy Bell? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, maybe Dorothy Bell. I don’t believe Dorothy Bell – maybe she did go. Yes. And, who else? And I met some people in Raphine, the Alestocks. They’d ride on the bus with us. Let me get myself a drink of water. [Tape stops momentarily.] Isabelle Chewning: Did Dan [Franklin] go to school in Lexington with you? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, he went for a while. Yes, he went to school there. Isabelle Chewning: And who was next to Dan? Edward? Did Edward go to school in Lexington? Eleanor Hawkins: No, no. Isabelle Chewning: Was Edward next to Dan? Eleanor Hawkins: He was older than Dan. Isabelle Chewning: Was he the next oldest above Dan? So Dan and you were the two that went to Lexington. What do you remember about working on the farm? Eleanor Hawkins: No, I didn’t too much working on the farm. Isabelle Chewning: Did you have to work in the garden? Eleanor Hawkins: No, I ain’t been no garden person! No I’m not a garden person. Isabelle Chewning: Did you do housework? Did you have to help… Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, I had to help around the house. And I learned to cook early in life. Isabelle Chewning: Did your sisters teach you how to cook? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, my sister, Katherine. She died early. Isabelle Chewning: Oh, she did? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, she died young, about 35. And, I always—kind of had a low premonition about 35. My mother, she died young. And I said, “If I can make 35….” Isabelle Chewning: And now here you are, almost 80. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, I’m almost 80. Isabelle Chewning: You made it long past 35. Eleanor Hawkins: But 35 was a bad time for me because I just kept thinking that she died so young. Isabelle Chewning: What did she die of? Eleanor Hawkins: She blood pressure problems. Isabelle Chewning: Oh, my, for somebody so young. Eleanor Hawkins: And you know, of course, things then are not like they are up to date. Because you can keep your blood pressure with medication and diet. Well, not so much diet, it’s the food that we eat that causes sometimes our blood pressure. And for us to have bad cholesterol. Because you’ve got two cholesterols, good ones and bad ones. Isabelle Chewning: Is yours good? Eleanor Hawkins: It’s very good. Isabelle Chewning: Oh, good for you! How’s your blood pressure? Eleanor Hawkins: The blood pressure is very well. I take a blood pressure pill but not one of them harsh ones. 10 milligrams so that’s not nothing hardly. And I’ve been taking that for quite a while. Isabelle Chewning: So Katherine taught you to cook, though. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, she taught me how to cook so I could help out. And after she died, I had to help to cook for my father. Isabelle Chewning: How old were you when she died? Eleanor Hawkins: I guess about a teenager when she died. Isabelle Chewning: Is she buried at Asbury [United Methodist Church] in Brownsburg? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, she’s buried in Brownsburg. Isabelle Chewning: Your sister [Virginia Franklin] told me about you singing one time for a special program at Asbury. She said you were a really good singer. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, I used to sing at different occasions. But, when I was young, we always had something to do when school was out in the summer. We always—it seemed like it was like sharing. We always had Bible School. And we were always communicating with the people at the Presbyterian church [New Providence Presbyterian Church]. They would come in and we’d have Bible School for two weeks and we had fun. And no problems, not like it is today. It was fun. I had fun. Isabelle Chewning: What do you remember about your father? Eleanor Hawkins: Oh, I remember him. I was grown when he passed on. Isabelle Chewning: Was he strict? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, he was kind of strict. And, he was like, I don’t like to use the word that—he always wanted you to be—I mean for me, I’m Eleanor. I’m no put-on, I’m just Eleanor. And sometimes things come out of my mouth maybe that shouldn’t. [Laugh] Isabelle Chewning: [Laugh] Is that something you learned from him? Eleanor Hawkins: No. But I guess maybe it was. But I don’t think so. He was a very kind person, very kind. And, I’m just—I don’t try to be entertaining -- that I’m not. I like to be – think of being a good person. A person that likes people, and someone that likes to communicate. Isabelle Chewning: Was your whole family that way? Eleanor Hawkins: I would say some of us. Everybody is not the same. And, sometimes, you speak things that may not suit that other person, which is the truth. That’s the way life is. Life’s just like that. But other than that, life has been very, very good. I don’t have no complaints. Isabelle Chewning: It looks like you have a nice family. Eleanor Hawkins: Very nice. I have another older son, and I have one daughter. Isabelle Chewning: How long have you lived here? Eleanor Hawkins: Almost 21 years. I’ve been here a long time. Isabelle Chewning: Some people have told me your father was—he didn’t have really veterinary training, but he always the person that they called when their animals were sick. Eleanor Hawkins: I remember some of that, but see I was young when all of that was going on. But I knew he was a veterinary, he had done veterinary work, all that he could do without having a license. Isabelle Chewning: Do you know who taught him? How he learned that? Eleanor Hawkins: I don’t know. I guess maybe it was just a gift, we’ll say a gift. Isabelle Chewning: Was his father a farmer too? Eleanor Hawkins: No, as far as I know he worked [as sexton] for the New Providence Church. That’s what I remember. Isabelle Chewning: So your father worked for the Wades? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, he worked for the Wades for a lot of years. Then after that he worked for the Martins, Frances Martin. Isabelle Chewning: Did he get paid a regular salary? Or did he get a percentage of the… Eleanor Hawkins: I don’t know, I guess you call that sharecropping. Isabelle Chewning: So he got part of the crops? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, right. Isabelle Chewning: Your sister [Virginia Franklin] told me that some of the men in Brownsburg would come out to the farm and work for the father. Eleanor Hawkins: They did. Isabelle Chewning: Do you remember who they were? Eleanor Hawkins: I don't remember all of that. That’s pretty far back, because I was too young. Mostly, I can remember, at harvest time he’d always tell me, “Get around to So-and-So and bring him water.” And when it got hot in the country, to me it was hot! I went in the house and sat down where it was nice and shady! [Laugh] Isabelle Chewning: [Laugh] You didn’t take them the water like you were supposed to? Eleanor Hawkins: No. But I went on and got the water, but it was hot. You know how it is, hot. Isabelle Chewning: Where did you have to go to get the water? Eleanor Hawkins: We had one of those cisterns, I guess, that’s what you call that. You pump up out of the ground to get water. Isabelle Chewning: Your sister [Virginia Franklin] told me that -- I think she said Katherine used to make the best fried chicken, and she used to make really good biscuits. Is that what she taught you how to cook? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, she could make some biscuits that would just melt away in your mouth! Isabelle Chewning: And what else did she teach you how to cook? Eleanor Hawkins: She taught me how to fry chicken and make cornbread and macaroni and cheese. Isabelle Chewning: That’s my favorite. Eleanor Hawkins: It is? And all of those things that people eat down in the country. We really don’t know too much about collard greens and all of that. I didn’t know all of that stuff. We only had kale, spinach, that was about it. And then you had the cress — field cress at certain times of the year, and that’s it. I never learned about collard greens until I came to Washington. Isabelle Chewning: So you didn’t like to work in the garden? Eleanor Hawkins: No, no. Gardening not my kind of thing. Now my sister [Virginia Bell Franklin], I guess she told you she liked to work in the garden. Isabelle Chewning: She sounded like she did. She said that you had just about everything growing in your garden, corn and beans, tomatoes, watermelon. Eleanor Hawkins: Right. Tomatoes. And I remember when -- after there was no [black] school in Brownsburg – I don’t know whether you remember. You probably wasn’t there at that time. They made the school into a cannery. Isabelle Chewning: I have a vague, vague recollection of that. I think when I was really little I must have gone there with my mother. Eleanor Hawkins: But, we had a cannery, and that’s where everybody came and brought their vegetables and canned. Isabelle Chewning: Did you ever do that? Eleanor Hawkins: Oh yes. Always something we’d can. Tomatoes, string beans, corn. And it was like a fun thing. Everybody. Isabelle Chewning: Everybody was there? Eleanor Hawkins: Everybody was there. Isabelle Chewning: Was it open all summer? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, it was open all summer, at the special, at different -- It would be open all summer and then it would be—when it was time, the canning season. And then after that they would close down, then open up the next year. If I’m not mistaken, now I’m not sure. It might have stayed open for two years. I don’t know. I just don’t remember all of that. And they had it they way you could seal the cans, and then you’d put them down in hot water, and all of that stuff. It was real good, very good. Isabelle Chewning: How was school [Lylburn Downing] in Lexington ? Eleanor Hawkins: It was very good. Isabelle Chewning: Do you remember the teachers that you had there, any special teachers that you remember? Eleanor Franklin: Oh, it’s been so long ago. Isabelle Chewning: What happened to Miss Peters when the Brownsburg school closed. Did she go to Lexington? Eleanor Hawkins: No, she just retired from schooling, as far as I know. I don’t think she worked any more with school, after the school closed in Brownsburg, as far as I know. I don’t think she went to Fairfield and worked. Because I know she left and went to Baltimore, I believe, to stay with her brother. Isabelle Chewning: Was she married? Eleanor Hawkins: I don’t think so. I don’t think she ever got married. Isabelle Chewning: What about the stores in Brownsburg? Did you come to Brownsburg to shop in the stores? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, we used to come to Brownsburg. And where you’re talking about that --used to be a store, what did they call that store? You walked up the steps, what is that? Isabelle Chewning: Was that Supinger’s store? [Currently Old South Antiques] Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, Supinger. And then they had another store, a filling station [2712 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Isabelle Chewning: Oh, Huffman’s. Was it Huffman’s then? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, I guess it was Huffman’s filling station right there. Because the Post Office it was right there [in Bosworth’s Store, 2707 Brownsburg Turnpike] And then, do you know where the Bosworths used to live? [2703 Brownsburg Turnpike] Right there, that’s where the Post Office was. And then, of course, I think, the bank was where it’s always been [2711 Brownsburg Turnpike]. They never ever changed the bank from the time I can remember. Isabelle Chewning: Did your family go to church at Asbury just about every Sunday? Eleanor Hawkins: Oh, yes, we went to church. Walked, too. Isabelle Chewning: Did you? Everyone walked? Eleanor Hawkins: Everybody walked. Isabelle Chewning: Do you remember any of the ministers you had? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, some of them I remember. A pastor named Reverend Buchanan. And then we had one named Reverend Lewis. I remember another man’s name, if I’m not mistaken, Abernathy. Isabelle Chewning: And did they mostly live in Lexington and drive out to… Eleanor Hawkins: No, the church had a house to house the pastor. Isabelle Chewning: Is it the house next door to the church? [29 Academy Alley] Eleanor Hawkins: Yes. Isabelle Chewning: So they lived there. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, they lived there. Isabelle Chewning: Because it was a big congregation then? Eleanor Hawkins: Kind of big. Quite a few people. They lived in Brownsburg. Quite a few black people lived in Brownsburg in my time. Isabelle Chewning: Do you remember who some of them were? Eleanor Hawkins: What do you mean, the people? Isabelle Chewning: Yes, who went to church with you. Eleanor Hawkins: Oh, the Shoultz’s. And Craneys, Pleasants, the Browns. And did I say Shoultz? Quite a few people used to go. Isabelle Chewning: And there special things that your church did, too, right? The lawn parties and the harvest celebration? Eleanor Hawkins: We used to have lawn parties on the first Saturday in August. Isabelle Chewning: Do you remember those? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, I remember those. I was very young, when they were going on. Isabelle Chewning: And who came to those? Did the white people come too or just the black people? Eleanor Hawkins: No, the white people used to come. And people come from all around. We’d have a big crowd. Isabelle Chewning: Was that to make money for the church? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, to make money for the church. And I know, my father, he would always make ice cream, homemade. The best! [Laugh] Isabelle Chewning: What kind? Eleanor Hawkins: Sometimes he would make peach. He’d made peach, and sometimes just plain vanilla. And I mean it was some nice good cow milk. The cow milk when you drink it and you get a lot of cream. Isabelle Chewning: A lot of butter fat and cream in there. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, right. Right, right! Like I tell my kids, I can remember when I was young, my brother, he would be milking the cow and I would tell him, Hit it right here!” [Points to her mouth] Isabelle Chewning: [Laugh] And did he? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, right. [Laugh] And I’d always just drink milk right from the cow. And I couldn’t do that now. Isabelle Chewning: Not now. Everything has to be pasteurized now. Eleanor Hawkins: Pasteurized, yes, right. But people were much -- their health was much better then than than it is now. Isabelle Chewning: I think so too. Eleanor Hawkins: I think we ate more food that was raised from natural. Isabelle Chewning: Right. You knew where it was coming from then, too. Eleanor Hawkins: That’s right. And it didn’t have a whole of additives put into it. What we’re eating now is nothing but additives, something to make something grow so they can get it out on the market and make money. It’s all about money. It’s all about profit. And making money. Everything. But life has been good. Isabelle Chewning: Did you have chickens and pigs? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, chickens, pigs. Isabelle Chewning: So you raised your own eggs? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, right, nice fresh eggs. Chicken, nice fresh chicken. Isabelle Chewning: Did you sew your own clothes? Did your sisters make clothes for you? Eleanor Hawkins: [Coughs] Excuse me. No. They didn’t know too much about sewing. I will say that sometimes we miss out on opportunities. And one thing I did miss out on, I could have learned to sew, and maybe sew well. You didn’t know Mary Lotts, did you? Isabelle Chewning: I know her daughter [or granddaughter?]. Eleanor Hawkins: Mary had a daughter? Isabelle Chewning: The one I know was named Mary Emma Lotts, and I think it was her daughter, maybe her granddaughter. Eleanor Hawkins: Anyway, Mary Lotts used to be a seamstress. She’d done a lot of sewing for the people in the community, the white people. And she wanted to teach me how to sew, on a sewing machine. And of course, if you don’t have that push sometimes when an opportunity comes, you miss out on it. And this is what I stress to my kids, and every other kid, if an opportunity comes along, take it. Grab it like you’re hungry. Isabelle Chewning: Did you not want to learn to sew? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, I guess I did, but I don’t know what happened. She was going to show me about sewing, because she was a good seamstress. She was a fine and nice seamstress. And she knew the ropes. Isabelle Chewning: And she was your neighbor then, too, wasn’t she? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, we was neighbors. Well she lived off from my grandmother. See my grandmother’s house was – my grandmother was right here, and she lived right down the hill from my grandmother. And what happened to all of that property, I don’t know. Isabelle Chewning: I don’t remember any houses, where I think you’re talking about [heading north, on the left side of Brownsburg Turnpike, just before the first driveway to the New Providence Presbyterian Church.] I don’t remember any houses being there. Eleanor Hawkins: So that was being like on the Raphine Road, going to Raphine. But only like it was a fork in the road, right here. That’s where I used to go and wait for the bus to come by to pick me up, and we’d go on to Raphine. Isabelle Chewning: So is where you’re talking about closer to the Martin place? Eleanor Hawkins: We lived on the Martin place. And then I would walk up to this fork in the road, and wait for the school bus to pick me up and that’s where we lived, the street going to Raphine. And from Raphine, we’d go from Raphine to Fairfield. Some of the kids we let off in Fairfield to go to the school in Fairfield, and then we’d take off and go to Lexington. Isabelle Chewning: That’s a long bus ride. Eleanor Hawkins: That’s a long ride. Isabelle Chewning: Up that winding Raphine Road. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, long ride. No heat. No heat on the bus. Cold bus. But, anyway it was enjoyable, something new. And it would be very good for each child of today to experience something like that that would make more appreciative of what’s going on in this day and age. Because there are a lot of opportunities out here for each one. We make our choice. We all have a choice, some good, some bad. We all make sometimes bad choices, but we try to amend ourselves. And if we get another chance, we grab on to it and make it good and work, work for us. And I think if you have the right relationship with our Lord and Savior, you’ll be right. Because he’ll make everything all right. Because he has everything in store for what’s going to happen to you today, tomorrow, and the next day. It will work out. Isabelle Chewning: Did you have a lot of childhood diseases? Were you pretty healthy when you were growing up? Did you have the chicken pox and measles and all of that? Eleanor Hawkins: Oh, I was pretty healthy. Isabelle Chewning: Did you have the chicken pox and measles and all those? Eleanor Hawkins: I think I had chicken pox, and maybe the measles. And I think maybe once I might have had whooping cough. Isabelle Chewning: Did you see the doctor? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes. I think vaccinations helped a lot. And, I think, when they stopped vaccinating children it kind of took away something maybe. Because now I know when my kids were born, none of them, no vaccination. Isabelle Chewning: Oh, really? Eleanor Hawkins: Children didn’t get vaccinated. Isabelle Chewning: Is that right? Hmm. Eleanor Hawkins: They stopped vaccination way back. But we had to take other things, you know. You would take different shots when they were a certain age. Same thing like now. But they were saying that vaccination was doing something. I could see where it was doing good instead of bad. Isabelle Chewning: Did people worry a lot about things like polio and tuberculosis? Eleanor Hawkins: Well, maybe not. To me, a lot of years ago, we didn’t know too much about those things like we know today. Isabelle Chewning: Sometimes ignorance is bliss, isn’t it? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes. This is like you can get a prescription pill today and if you – now I belong to CVS [Pharmacy]. They’re going to give you a print out of everything about that medicine, the effects, what might happen, whatever. I mean it’s up to you to read it, and you must read it. I always read it to see what the after effects are going to be because that’s what you’re thinking about. Now, a couple of days ago, it must have been over a week ago, I was having trouble with my right ear. My provider, she gave me some drugs and I said to myself, “I don’t want to take this. I don’t think this is right for me.” And one drop—she told me to put four drops in. And I said, “Thank you, Jesus,” that I didn’t put but one. But it made me so sick. And my head was going around, spinning around like a top. I ended up going to the hospital. And had never taken anti- bacterial antibiotic, and it didn’t suit me. Isabelle Chewning: I’m glad you only put one in, too. Eleanor Hawkins: Right. So, I just remember some things, like I was saying, we know about it. And if there’s something you really don’t understand, you can call your pharmacist and they will explain it to you as much as they can. Isabelle Chewning: Did you see the doctor very often when you were growing up, when you were young? Or you had to be really sick to see the doctor? Eleanor Hawkins: You had to be really sick to see the doctor, but, I was pretty well. Isabelle Chewning: Was most of your family pretty well? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, most of my family was pretty well. Most of them were pretty well growing up. I only started getting sick as I started getting a little older. Everybody needs to lose weight, they say. Isabelle Chewning: What year did you graduate from high school? Eleanor Hawkins: Oh, it was way back there in 1945. It’s been so long ago. Isabelle Chewning: Did World War II have any effect on you? Was there plenty of gas for the bus to run to school? Eleanor Hawkins: Oh, yes, we didn’t have no trouble getting to school at all. Isabelle Chewning: And were some of your family in World War II? Eleanor Hawkins: I had 3 brothers. A brother named George, and Dan, and Ed. Ed was in the Navy. And George and Dan were in the Army. Isabelle Chewning: And did you get news of them, at all, when they were in the war? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes. They’d write to us, and we’d know. Isabelle Chewning: Were they ever in Europe? Eleanor Hawkins: I think my brother Dan, and my brother, George, I believe he went to Germany and was there for a while. But, front line, I don’t think they ever was there, I don’t know. But I know they were all three were in the Service. Isabelle Chewning: Did you worry about them a lot? Eleanor Hawkins: I was very young when all of that was going on because when my brother, Dan went, he had just barely turned 18. And at the time, you had to register when you become 18. Isabelle Chewning: Oh right, You had to register. Eleanor Hawkins: You had to register. You don’t have to do that now. And that’s what, your President, our President, wants us to do. Wants the people to do, young men. He’s trying to bring that back, you know. Isabelle Chewning: So as soon as Dan turned 18, he went and registered and got drafted? Eleanor Hawkins: And they called him and they drafted him into the Service. So that took everybody off the farm. Isabelle Chewning: Oh, right. So what happened then? Eleanor Hawkins: My father run the farm by himself, with people helping. Isabelle Chewning: Because your brothers had provided most of the labor before that? And maybe that’s when he had the men Brownsburg to come out and help him? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, I think most of the time it was, especially at harvest time. Isabelle Chewning: And did he work mostly with animals, no tractors or no machines? Eleanor Hawkins: In the later years he had a tractor. Isabelle Chewning: Do you remember working with the horses? Eleanor Hawkins: Oh, yes, yes, yes, I remember horses. I love horses. I like cows. I like dogs. I’m not fancy with cats. [Laugh] I wouldn’t have one for a pet, we’ll put it like that. But dogs, I’ve always had a dog. I haven’t had one since I’ve been here. I had a little dog where I used to live, when my children were small. And, but other than that, that’s pretty much it. Isabelle Chewning: Do you remember when you first got electricity? Did you have electricity in any of your houses? Eleanor Hawkins: We always had electricity. Isabelle Chewning: On the farm? Eleanor Hawkins: Yeah, on the farm. Isabelle Chewning: Do you remember having a phone? Eleanor Hawkins: Oh, no, we didn’t have no phone. We didn’t have no phone when I lived there. That was only for people that the money to have phones. Nobody had no phones. Isabelle Chewning: How about a car? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, my father had a car. Yes, he had a car. He had a Model A Ford. Isabelle Chewning: Did you ever learn to drive? Eleanor Hawkins: Not completely. Which I’m very sorry I didn’t, cause it’s very important to know how to drive. Isabelle Chewning: It’s nice to learn how to drive. Eleanor Hawkins: It sure is. It’s nice to know how to drive, because if I knew how to drive, I would never be home! [Laugh] And if I had something to drive, I’d never be home. Isabelle Chewning: [Laugh] What did you do after you graduated from high school? Did you stay on the farm and cook and help your dad? Eleanor Hawkins: Well for a while, yes, I did. And I used to work for, do you know, Taylor? Isabelle Chewning: The doctor? Eleanor Hawkins: Um hmm. You knew him? Isabelle Chewning: I think when I was a baby, he was the doctor. What did you do for him? Eleanor Hawkins: I just watched the children. Isabelle Chewning: Oh, I see, you took care of their children, when he worked? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes. Isabelle Chewning: How many children did they have? Eleanor Hawkins: They had three children. Isabelle Chewning: And his office was in Brownsburg? Eleanor Hawkins: Yeah, his office was in Brownsburg. But he lived in the, you know, the house where the doctors used to live at? [2744 Brownsburg Turnpike] He lived there for a while, but then they moved out on that farm, the Wade’s farm. Isabelle Chewning: Oh, where you used to live? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, out there where I used to live. Isabelle Chewning: So the Taylors moved to the Wade’s farm? Where did the Wade’s go? Eleanor Hawkins: Well, they lived in Brownsburg. With a man named – I don’t know what his name was, their uncle. You’ve probably heard of him. Isabelle Chewning: Is he the one that worked in the bank, Mr. Wade, that Mr. Wade? Eleanor Hawkins: I don’t know. I believe his daughter, one of them worked in a bank. Jen. Do you know Jen Wade [Heffelfinger]? Isabelle Chewning: Yes. Right. Eleanor Harris: And Margaret. I don’t think Margaret, she wasn’t home. I think she was always —yes, she was a teacher. Kate. Do you remember her? Isabelle Chewning: Yes. She is the one who was an invalid, right. She was sick? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, she was sick. Isabelle Chewning: And Mary was always in a wheelchair that I remember. Eleanor Hawkins: See, I remember when she wasn’t in a wheel chair. Isabelle Chewning: I’m going to flip this tape over. [End of Tape 1, Side A] Isabelle Chewning: Do you know if Mary was in a wheelchair because she had an accident or did she just have arthritis when she got older? Eleanor Hawkins: I don’t know. I guess so. I didn’t know her when she was in a wheelchair, ‘cause I think when I left Brownsburg she wasn’t in no wheelchair. Isabelle Chewning: When did you leave Brownsburg? Eleanor Hawkins: In ’52. Isabelle Chewning: And was that after your father had died? Eleanor Hawkins: After he had died. Isabelle Chewning: When did he die? Eleanor Hawkins: He died in September of ’52. Isabelle Chewning: And so you left soon after that? What did he die of? Eleanor Hawkins: He had a heart attack. Isabelle Chewning: Was he old? Eleanor Hawkins: No he wasn’t. Well, we’ll put it like this: during that part of that era, I guess they called 65 old. Isabelle Chewning: Right. It’s not old any more. Eleanor Hawkins: It’s not old any more, it’s young. He was 65 when he died. Isabelle Chewning: So he died in September and then you left soon after that? Eleanor Hawkins: Well it was in the winter, I think. We came to Washington? Isabelle Chewning: Who came? Eleanor Hawkins: Just Virginia and I, because we were the only ones that were left. Isabelle Chewning: Oh, I see. Was she working with the Wades then? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes. Isabelle Chewning: And you were at home. So just the two of you. And did you have other brothers and sisters who were up here [in Washington, DC]? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, they were in Washington here. Isabelle Chewning: Who was here? Eleanor Hawkins: Mary, Margaret, and I had brother George. Isabelle Chewning: So most of your family then had moved. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, most of my family was up here. Isabelle Chewning: And what brought them up here? Eleanor Hawkins: I don’t know. I guess, you know, leaving to find work. Isabelle Chewning: This is where the jobs were? Eleanor Hawkins: Hunting jobs, you know. Because living in the country in that era of those years was okay. But you didn’t make anything. Isabelle Chewning: You had better opportunities here. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, better opportunities. Better opportunities. Because country is not like it is when I lived in the country, now. Those people that live in the country now, they have bathrooms, running water, telephones, just like anybody else lives. But, when I lived there, no running water, no bathroom. Isabelle Chewning: So it felt like you were really getting into civilization when you moved here? Eleanor Hawkins: That’s right. That’s right. And then when you look at it, you’d think you was deprived of some of the things in life that you should have had. And then it makes you appreciate some things that you have today. Right? Isabelle Chewning: Right. Tell me a little bit more about who you used to stay with in Lexington? Eleanor Hawkins: I used to stay with my Aunt Maggie and her family, Maggie Pleasants, and her family. And they lived in, I guess, they called it Mud Town. Isabelle Chewning: What was it called? Eleanor Hawkins: Mud Town. Isabelle Chewning: Oh. I never heard that before. Eleanor Hawkins: Haven’t you? Mud Town. I used to go there and stay over night? Isabelle Chewning: Was it close to the school? Eleanor Hawkins: Not too far to walk to the school. Isabelle Chewning: Are there any particular people in Brownsburg that stand out in your memory? Eleanor Hawkins: Well, you know, I knew most all of the people. We all just had fun together. Enjoyed life. Isabelle Chewning: What did you do for fun? How did you entertain yourselves? Eleanor Hawkins: You always had music or something. Isabelle Chewning: It sounds like there were a lot of musicians in your family, a lot of singers in your family. Eleanor Hawkins: Yeah, it was. You just entertained yourself. Isabelle Chewning: Right. You didn’t have TV and video games to entertain you. Eleanor Hawkins: No, none of that! [Laughs] Isabelle Chewning: You had to make your own entertainment. Eleanor Hawkins: Right. Because no TV and all of that stuff. You just did have radio. Isabelle Chewning: But were there games that you played when you were little? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, you used to have games. And, you’d listen to different things on the radio, like Inner Sanctum and different things. That would kind of help you. And I used to do a lot of reading. Yes, I did a lot of reading. And reading can be very educational to you. It helps your vocabulary. And I used to do lots of reading. Isabelle Chewning: Did you get books from the library? Eleanor Hawkins: Well, no, I didn’t get so many books from the library. I used to order different magazines, and get those like that. And read different things. Isabelle Chewning: Do you remember what some of the magazines were? Eleanor Hawkins: Oh gosh, it’s been so long ago, I don’t know. I couldn’t tell you. It’s hard to remember. But I can remember that I used to read a whole lot. Reading is very important, as of today. Isabelle Chewning: You mentioned a couple of the businesses in Brownsburg, Huffman’s Store and Supinger’s Store. Do you remember any of the other businesses? And the cannery. You mentioned the cannery. Eleanor Hawkins: Well, you know, Whitesells, you remember them? They used to have a store, John Layton’s. And of course John Layton [Whitesell] is still living there today. Isabelle Chewning: And they were the undertakers, too. The Whitesells, right? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes. Because most of the time when we go down that way, when we see them. We’d holler at them. Virginia and I, not my sons, they don’t know the people. Some of them I don’t know myself. Isabelle Chewning: Maybe you need to get your sons down to Brownsburg to meet everybody. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, well we go down and try to, like when we have homecoming at the church, and they always have Cemetery Day. You’ve been to do that? Isabelle Chewning: Yes, our church, I guess we sang. Yes, we’ve sung the last two or three years, I think. Eleanor Hawkins: You sing in the choir there? Do you know Bud Martin? Isabelle Chewning: I do. He broke his leg a few weeks ago. He had a bad break way up high in his leg, but he was back at church, last Sunday, but not in the choir. He says he’s going to quit, and we say, “No, you have to stay.” Nobody can hit the low notes as good as him. Eleanor Hawkins: When you see him, tell him, “Eleanor says hello. And take care and stop falling down.” Isabelle Chewning: I’ll tell him that. Because he talked a lot about your family, about how he would eat at your house, and Dan would eat at his house with him and Sid [Martin]. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes. Isabelle Chewning: Yes, Bud talked a whole lot about your family and your father. Eleanor Hawkins: Let’s see he had a sister Frances Belle. Isabelle Chewning: Frances Belle, right. Did your family celebrate holidays? Did you celebrate Christmas? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, we celebrated Christmas, New Years, Easter. Isabelle Chewning: How did you celebrate Christmas? Did you have a big dinner? Eleanor Hawkins: We always had a big dinner. We put up a Christmas tree, and all of that kind of good stuff. And it was always, as far as I know, when I was a little girl, it was all right. For my older brothers and sisters, I can’t speak for them. I only can speak for Eleanor. But yes, we’d celebrate and have big dinners. Thanksgiving. I mean Thanksgiving was the only time – I believe it was Thanksgiving -- we’d have turkey because, we only had turkey even twice a year if you wanted to, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Other parts of the year… Isabelle Chewning: Because nobody raised turkeys? Eleanor Hawkins: No. It was just a no-no. Isabelle Chewning: A couple of people have told me that a lot of people butchered around Thanksgiving, and they always wanted your father there, because he was the best, and always knew exactly … Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, the time of the year when it was cold like this and we called it the hog killing time. Isabelle Chewning: And he was good. Did you help with that? Eleanor Hawkins: No. But, he used to kill sometimes five, six, seven hogs in a year. And then, in later years, he was getting older, he used to take them to the slaughter house. They had a place, he didn’t take the pork too much, but he used to have beef, and he would take that to the slaughterhouse and have it done and have it cut up. And then he would rent storage. Isabelle Chewning: At the meat locker. Was it called the meat locker? Eleanor Hawkins: I guess it was the meat locker. Isabelle Chewning: I remember something about a meat locker. Eleanor Hawkins: There was a meat locker somewhere down there. Now, where was that? I don’t remember. I don’t know. All I know is a meat locker, and he would—I mean they would—when they slaughtered, they would cut the way he wanted it cut, how he wanted it cut; how much he’d want in this. We always had hamburger, steaks, nice roast beef, the best. Isabelle Chewning: So you always remember having plenty to eat. Eleanor Hawkins: Plenty. We always had plenty to eat. And, you knew the source it was coming from. It’s like I said, the source. And that’s what they’re asking people now, to go buy from – Isabelle Chewning: Local. When you can. ‘Cause you know where it’s coming from. Any other topics or subjects about Brownsburg you can think of that you’d like to talk about? Eleanor Hawkins: Well, I can’t think of anything else, other than what we’ve all ready talked about. Isabelle Chewning: I think I’ve covered most of my questions, unless there’s something else you can think of you’d like to tell me about. Eleanor Hawkins: I can’t think of any other things, too much, you know. I know a tradition that we used to have at the church, we always had Children’s Day. Isabelle Chewning: What was that? Eleanor Hawkins: That was like on a Sunday and all of the children would participate. Isabelle Chewning: Is that when you sang? Eleanor Hawkins: Most of the time. Yes, “Jesus Loves Me.” It was a fun time. Isabelle Chewning: I’m glad you have good memories of Brownsburg. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, I have good memories of Brownsburg. I’ll tell you when I first came to Washington, I got very homesick. Very. Isabelle Chewning: Even though you had a lot of brothers and sisters who lived here? Eleanor Hawkins: Even though I had a whole lot of brothers and sisters here, I still got homesick, because that was home and that’s what I knew. That’s the only thing I did know, Brownsburg. And, I told my sister, Virginia, I said, “I’ve got to go to Brownsburg. I’ve just to get out of here. Got to get out of here.” So I caught the bus, went to my brother [Daniel], where he lived in Staunton, him and his wife, Dora Mae. Isabelle Chewning: Dan and Dora May? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes. And so they lived on Sixth Street [??] in Stanton like where they used to live. So, I went there and I don’t know, he was busy, and he said to me, “I’m not going to be able to take you to Brownsburg.” And seeing that -- that took my spirit, just like something had stabbed me in the heart. And so then I told him the next day, I said, “You know, I think I’m getting ready to leave, I’m going on back to Washington.” And from that time, all of that distance it went away. And it was about seven to eight years before I went back to Brownsburg again. Isabelle Chewning: And did you do work up here? What kind of work did you do up here? Eleanor Hawkins: When I first started, I worked in a family. Isabelle Chewning: Taking care of people’s children? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes. And then, I stopped doing that, and I went to class, and I got to be a nursing tech. Well, I had all of these children, I had five of them. And after they got older, I began to work—I used to work at night. I first started to work at Doctor’s Hospital downtown on 18th Street. And I worked there for about 12 or 13 years until they closed. And then after that, I went from there to a hospital in Northeast, I can’t remember the name of that hospital. Isabelle Chewning: D.C. General? Eleanor Hawkins: No, no. I didn’t work at D.C. General. I’m sorry I didn’t. I should have had an opportunity to go there. I worked at Capitol Hill Hospital, and worked there until I retired from there, at night time. I always worked—I worked at daytime at Doctor’s [Hospital], but I always worked at night at Capitol Hill. I liked working at night It’s better, not so much going on as in the daytime. Isabelle Chewning: Right. Because the patients mostly are asleep. Eleanor Hawkins: That’s right. I’m going to put my oxygen on. [Tape is turned off momentarily while Mrs. Hawkins gets her oxygen.] Eleanor Hawkins: You know, when you have to -- become straining when getting air, that’s working on your heart. And you try to take care of that. Tick-tick-tick. Because tick-tick-tick can . Isabelle Chewning: Did you get married while you were up here? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes. Isabelle Chewning: How did you meet your husband? Eleanor Hawkins: I don’t know how I met him. I met him, I don’t know where it was. And then I got married, got these children, four boys and one girl. And then, my children all grew up and then I have grandchildren, and then I got great-grandchildren. Isabelle Chewning: Oh my goodness! Aren’t you lucky! That’s wonderful. And do most of them still live around here? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, most of them. Two sons live here. And I have my daughter, she lives over there in Clinton, Maryland. I know you’ve heard of that, because my oldest son, he lives out in Clinton, too. She lives further on down than he does. I told them they live too far in the boonies for me. [Laugh] But, when I first moved up here, because I used to live, you know where Soldiers’ Home is? I lived there on Rock Creek Road for a long time. And from there I moved here. Isabelle Chewning: This is a nice area. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, very nice. It’s close to everything. I used to walk and get the bus. Go everywhere by myself. Isabelle Chewning: You sister [Virginia Franklin] is a walker, I think. Eleanor Hawkins: She walks! Isabelle Chewning: She does. She told me she used to walk to Georgetown and back for somebody she worked for. And that’s quite a walk. Eleanor Hawkins: That’s quite a walk. Too much walking for me! Isabelle Chewning: That’s a lot of walking. Eleanor Hawkins: That’s a lot of walking. When my brother was sick, we used to go down there. Isabelle Chewning: Which brother was that? Eleanor Hawkins: Dan. Isabelle Chewning: You used to go down to Staunton? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, and that’s when he lived out there on C Street [??], ‘cause he lived in a senior place for a long while. Isabelle Chewning: Did Dora die before he did? Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, she did. She died in ’03. And he died in ’05. She died September, I believe it was, I may be wrong. I believe it was September ’03. And he died April ’05. But, anyway, my sister, she looked at this thing, I’ll tell you, “I ain’t staying in no house. I’ve got to get out of here.” [Laugh] “Go ahead and take a walk. Take the toes and walk.” [Laugh] She had to get up and go. She said, “I can’t stay in the house.” So she just couldn’t stay in the house. She used to getting up and going . And now I’ve never been a person that liked to stay in the house a lot. I’m in the house more, now, since I’m not able to walk around like I would like to. And when you can’t walk around, it’s a handicap to you, very handicapping. So a lot of places, I mean you can go, because you can have a little tank [of oxygen] that you can carry with you, but I don’t have one of those. In order to have one of those, you’ve got to almost not be breathing. I mean it all depends on who your doctor is, we’ll put it like that. So the doctors can do what you can’t do. They do the things for you. Isabelle Chewning: If they know how to pull the right strings? Eleanor Hawkins: You said it! [Laugh] Isabelle Chewning: But you were thinking it! [Laugh] Eleanor Hawkins: I’ll tell you, I went on a cruise. I was going to take oxygen with me, and just like I’m saying, sometimes we open our mouth up at the wrong time. And I talked with the people that takes care of the oxygen, which is LinCare [ph?], you might have it down there. LinCare. And see, instead of me just opening my mouth, I opened it up, which, what the doctor was, what he had to do was show the copies that he had that when I came to see him that my oxygen level was down like maybe 89, 90. Then I could get that bag to take with me. And maybe one night when I was walking, and maybe you don’t need no more than one liter, just a little something for survival and then it’ll all go away after you sit down and make yourself comfortable. But I didn’t qualify because I think mine was 93 or 94. They don’t call that bad, when your oxygen level isn’t like should be like 95, 96, 97. If you can keep it at 93 or 94, you’re in pretty good shape. You got everything you want to get? Isabelle Chewning: I asked most of my questions unless you have something else? Eleanor Hawkins: No, I don’t have anything else. I enjoyed your visit. Isabelle Chewning: Thank you so you much. I enjoyed meeting you. I enjoyed your sister and you both. It’s nice I got a chance to meet you. Eleanor Hawkins: I’m glad I got to meet you. Isabelle Chewning: And I hope I get to see you in Brownsburg sometime. Eleanor Hawkins: Why sure. And when I do come to Brownsburg, and anything going on at the church, come out and enjoy the church music. Isabelle Chewning: Good, that would be great. Eleanor Hawkins: That will be really great. Isabelle Chewning: We have a nice young minister. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, I’ve met your pastor. He seems very nice, very nice man. Isabelle Chewning: Very nice man. He has a nice young family and two little girls. Eleanor Hawkins: You all have very many members? Isabelle Chewning: We have about 120 regular on Sunday, which is pretty good, I think. Eleanor Hawkins: Yes, said you knew Dorothy Martin. Yes, I know Dorothy. Isabelle Chewning: I’ll tell Bud and Dorothy about meeting you. And Betty Brown. [End of Tape 1, Side B] Eleanor Franklin Hawkins Index A Abernathy, Reverend Asbury UMC Minister · 17 Alestock Family · 9 Asbury United Methodist Church · 11, 16, 31 Children's Day · 33 Lawn Parties · 17 Parsonage · 17 Automobiles Model A Ford · 25 B Bible School · 11 Bicycle · 6 Brownsburg Bank · 16 Cannery · 14 Stores · 16 Buchanan, Reverend Asbury UMC Minister · 17 Butchering · 32 C Cannery · 14 Castle Carbury · 2 Childhood Diseases · 21 Christmas · 32 Craney, Frances · See Porterfield, Frances Craney Craney, Ruth · 8 E Electricity · 24 F Franklin, Daniel · 6, 32 Army Service in WWII · 23 Brother · 3 Death · 37 School in Lexington · 9 Staunton · 34 Franklin, Dora Mae · 34 Death · 36 Franklin, Edward · 9 Brother · 3 Navy Service in WWII · 23 Franklin, Esterline · 3 Mother · 2 Franklin, George · 28 Army Service in WWII · 23 Brother · 3 Franklin, Henry Brother · 3 Franklin, Katherine · 4, 14 Buried in Brownsburg · 11 Death · 10 Sister · 3 Franklin, Mack Brother · 3 Franklin, Margaret · 3, 28 Franklin, Mary · 4, 28 Sister · 3 Franklin, Mary Jane Midwife · 2 Franklin, Virginia Bell Gardening · 14 Move to Washington in 1952 · 28 Sister · 3 Franklin, Zack · 11 Butchering · 32 Death in 1952 · 27 Farming during WWII · 24 Father · 2 Veterinarian Work · 12 H Haliburton, Andrew · 5 Haliburton, Maggie · 5 Haliburton, William "Dude" · 5 Hawkins, Eleanor Franklin Birth · 1 Child Care · 34 Employed by Dr. Taylor · 25 High School Graduation in 1945 · 23 Household Chores · 9 Left Brownsburg in 1952 · 27 Marriage · 35 Nursing Technician · 34 School · 5 Heffelfinger, Jen Wade · 26 Horses · 24 Huffman’s Store · 16 I Indoor Plumbing · 29 L Lewis, Reverend Asbury UMC Minister · 17 Lexington Mud Town · 29 Lotts, Mary Seamstress · 19 Lotts, Mary Emma · 19 Lylburn Downing School · 5, 15 M Martin Farm · 2 Martin, Bud · 31 Martin, Dorothy Miller · 38 Martin, Frances · 13 Martin, Frances Belle · 32 Martin, Sid · 32 Meat Locker · 33 Music · 30 N New Providence Presbyterian Church · 11 P Peters, Carrie · 6 Retirement · 15 Pleasants, Clarence · 5 Pleasants, Edna · 5 Pleasants, Maggie · 29 Pleasants, William H. · 5 School Bus Driver · 7 Porterfield, Frances Craney · 8 Post Office · 16 R Radio · 30 Randolph, Dorothy Bell Shoultz · 9 S School Bus · 21 School Bus to Lexington · 7 School, Black · 5 Sharecropping · 13 Shoultz, Dorothy Bell · See Randolph,, Dorothy Bell Shoultz Shoultz, Frank · 9 Shoultz, Margaret · 8 Slaughterhouse · 33 Stewart, Samuel Dock · 8 Supinger’s Store · 16 T Taylor, Dr. Brownsburg Doctor · 25 Telephone Service · 25 Thanksgiving · 32 Tractor · 24 U Undertakers · 31 V Vaccinations · 21 W Wade Family Move to Brownsburg · 26 Wade Farm · 2 Wade, Jen · See Heffelfinger, Jen Wade Wade, Kate Invalid · 26 Wade, Margaret Teacher · 26 Wade, Mary · 27 Whitesell, John Layton · 31 Whitesell's Store · 31 World War II · 23 Draft Registration · 23