January – March 2008 Interview with Dorothy Miller Martin By Rachel Koeniger [Items enclosed in brackets [ ] are not on the audio, but are inserted for clarification.] [Second interview] Rachel Koeniger: Today is March 26th, 2008, my name is Rachel Koeniger and I’m here today at the home of Dot Martin for a follow up interview for the Brownsburg Oral History Project. Okay you wanna tell me your name? Dorothy Martin: Dorothy Martin. Rachel Koeniger: And you had some more thoughts about some of your memories of Brownsburg that you wanted to share with me today and one of them was some thoughts about Camp Briar Hills. Dorothy Martin: I remember as a child staying in Brownsburg with my grandmother and a boys camp that was called Camp Briar Hills, ran by the McLaughlins, being on a hill east of Brownsburg [2508 Sterrett Road] you could hear them over there and to me it was to believe that kids were going to camp or something like that back in those days it was different. But I can remember hearing all their hollering and playing and then the bugle in the morning, getting them up and the camp is still being run today by some of the McLaughlin’s, although it’s called Camp Maxwelton on Walker’s Creek [address]. Rachel Koeniger: Did you ever see any of the kids; did they come to church like they do now? Dorothy Martin: I don’t remember whether they-- probably not because they probably didn’t have any way to get them there. I know in later years, they would get people that had school buses to haul them places. Rachel Koeniger: And your grandmother lived in the white house behind the antique store [28 Hays Creek Road]? Dorothy Martin: Yeah which would be right across from that, it was one of the memories I have of Brownsburg. Rachel Koeniger: You thought some more about the stores that were in Brownsburg? Dorothy Martin: Well I can remember well of course I’m not sure what was in there then but it had been one time in later years there were four stores in there and then of course they all gradually went away and, you know, we have none of them in there, which today would be a big help to run to for milk or bread. But it used to be a lively town and they said on Saturday nights people would come in there, of course for the pool hall. Rachel Koeniger: And where is that? Dorothy Martin: Well around in the back of the old Swope’s store [2719 Brownsburg Turnpike] that where the antique shop is now and then up in the building beside the bank [2707 Brownsburg Turnpike]. I guess and the post office was in it at one time before it went to Whitesell’s Store [2664 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Rachel Koeniger: Like in recent years when all the stores were still open, did you do a lot of your shopping there like in the late ‘70s and ‘80s while they were still there? Dorothy Martin: A good bit yeah, a good bit yeah, I would say, you know, with anyway was convenient to run in there for things with the kids were always needing things. I did a good bit of shopping in there. And then they took the school away, I was very upset about that because I’d gone to-- well Sid and I both had done all our schooling in there and then the kids started in there and I think it’s, you know, you kinda lose something of the community because it was a place we could have things. If we had it now it could be used to for a lot of things-- tore the building down that we could use that to have things in and I think it’s always sad we don’t have any place to go back for reunions or get togethers that’s close to the school. Rachel Koeniger: During middle school your kids went there through middle school? Dorothy Martin: I imagine it was elementary because we didn’t have a middle school, I don’t think a middle school had started yet. Rachel Koeniger: So they had 7th and 8th grade at the high school or how did they do that? Dorothy Martin: 8th grade I guess would start over there [Rockbridge High School was then located at 1200 Sterrett Road]. Rachel Koeniger: And then 7? Dorothy Martin: And it would be through 7, and then they started the elementary in Fairfield and the middle school in there. Rachel Koeniger: But they went through elementary school up there? Dorothy Martin: Yeah. Rachel Koeniger: What about you mentioned the bank? Dorothy Martin: Well it was also very upsetting to lose our bank, because it was a small, I guess you’d say hometown bank where people knew you and it was very easy to take care of your bank transactions and things, it just felt more I guess you felt more at ease in things there, people knew you and respected you and you could do your banking with-- just have to go off where people don’t know you. Rachel Koeniger: Didn’t take all day either. Dorothy Martin: No and another thing I think of what many people remember, we had a doctor in Brownsburg for years. Rachel Koeniger: Who was the last doctor? Dorothy Martin: Taylor, Dr. Taylor. Rachel Koeniger: When did he leave? Dorothy Martin: I would say probably in the ‘50s, I think he left in there not long after Madeline, his nurse, was killed in that car wreck. I think he must have left not long after because they were gone. Rachel Koeniger: That was his nurse? Dorothy Martin: Yeah, Madeline Humphreys. Rachel Koeniger: And when did that happen? Dorothy Martin: ’54. Rachel Koeniger: Was that around here? Dorothy Martin: She was going to the West Virginia Fair and then because I think he left here not long after-- Doctor come to Fairfield and that’s where I had to go to because Doctor was gone I guess. I don’t know, maybe you have to check with somebody on that. Rachel Koeniger: And was his office the one up above the farm store? Dorothy Martin: Yeah. When Doctor [Joseph] Williams and Doctor Bailey were in there, theirs was in the house where Ag [Patterson] lived, down in the basement [2744 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Rachel Koeniger: And they lived in the house? Dorothy Martin: Yeah. Rachel Koeniger: Where did Doctor Taylor live? Dorothy Martin: I don’t know where he started out, but he ended up living out here at Castle Carberry, he rented that house from Wades. Rachel Koeniger: Let me ask you this, Betsy had talked about-- talking to you and Milton about the shooting or whatever happened at the school. Do you know enough about that that you could tell us? Dorothy Martin: I think Milton would be the better one on it because all I-- is what I’ve got in later years that, you know, bits and pieces because it was never talked about at home. Rachel Koeniger: Was that your great grandfather? Dorothy Martin: Yeah my great and then the uncle, Henry [Miller] that was in it. Rachel Koeniger: But you don’t know enough about that? Dorothy Martin: Probably not but of course. Dorothy Martin: The last it was in the paper Milton said it wasn’t right, you know, that article several years ago, Milton said it wasn’t right and I think he’s probably gotten stuff from-- see my aunt kept a lot, she kept a lot of-- had books with stuff in them and all and I’m guessing that’s where he’s gotten some of his. Rachel Koeniger: Who was your aunt? Dorothy Martin: Cornelia Plummer, my daddy’s sister. Rachel Koeniger: Your dad’s sister. Dorothy Martin: But she dead and I wish now, well I saved some things but I wished now, she’d cut out deaths and births and just things of interest in the community and Milton I think. Rachel Koeniger: Does he have it? Dorothy Martin: I think he kept one of them, I think he kept one of the books. Rachel Koeniger: That’ll be great. Dorothy Martin: But of course it would be more of interest to the community. When you think back at what, you know, what used to be in the village and of course all way have in there now other than homes is the post office and well we do have the antique shop, don’t forget about that. Rachel Koeniger: Did you ever go up there [to Whitesell’s Store] and just visit, I mean I’ve heard talk about when she needed milk or bread or something and she’d go down there and just visit for a while? Dorothy Martin: Well I mean you’d go in there, people-- was always people. That was one of the worst things of going in there sometimes with her who had nothing to do. But, you know, the Burns had, you know, he fixed up the Huffman’s store and of course the antique shop in the Swope’s store and Dick lives in the old feed store. I mean I think the village is beginning to get fixed up and it has a lot of history in it. Rachel Koeniger: It does. Well can we think of anything else we need to talk about? Dorothy Martin: I’m trying to think. Rachel Koeniger: Okay we were talking about some of the things that happened out at New Providence when you were young and you were telling me about a sunrise service. Dorothy Martin: We had a very active youth group because actually that was all we had to do in those days was meet on Sunday night and then since Easter’s come we have a sunrise service on Beard’s Hill and take a piano up there and we were. Rachel Koeniger: And that hill is where? Dorothy Martin: Behind Kenny Beard’s house [3911 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Rachel Koeniger: And they would haul a piano? Dorothy Martin: Yeah and sometimes we’d have somebody to come and sing, a guest, I mean we went all out for guests. I remember one night Nancy McCormack sang so pretty, she’d come several years and sang for us and then we played softball at the church a couple of nights a week. I mean that was all we had to do, I remember as an earlier child, they used to have prayer meetings and that would be around during the week and then we’d get together then. Rachel Koeniger: Was it a big youth group? Dorothy Martin: At times there were yeah, at times there would be yeah. Rachel Koeniger: Were there more members then than there are now? Dorothy Martin: Oh yeah I think so, yeah. Rachel Koeniger: Who were some of the friends that you had in the youth group, who were some of the other people that belonged to the youth group when you were in it? Dorothy Martin: Well it’d be Beards and who all would have been in there? Rachel Koeniger: All your brothers and sisters. Dorothy Martin: Yeah and Sandridges and yeah it would be Lunsfords, in Brownsburg it would Eliza Buchanan and I guess the McManamas but they were younger than me though. Rachel Koeniger: Who were your leaders? Dorothy Martin: You know back early, I’m not real-- Mack Lotts helped at one time and I guess our ministers who did a lot of it then. Of course they had a lot to do too because they didn’t have and then the Woody’s came here with, you know, of course that was later, I guess some of these were later but then we worked with them. The Richards from Newport, there was two of them and Mary Katherine Blackwell and there at one time we had a club up in Newport called the “Oak Hill Kids” we’d meet once a week and then. Rachel Koeniger: In Newport? Dorothy Martin: Yeah. Rachel Koeniger: What was that, just sort of an activity, just to get together? Dorothy Martin: Yeah, have parties and stuff like that and then after-- well when my kids were in youth group then, Milton and I had them several times and Donnie Beard helped me with them and then one year I think Doris Lunsford and I had the young people and whatnot and, you know, we’d work, we’d do sales, serve lunch and oh the horse show out at Maxwelton, we’d do lunch out there. Rachel Koeniger: What did you have? Dorothy Martin: Well they had always done hamburgers and hotdogs and I told them I so we made barbecue, we got the church to make barbecue the day before and we’d have barbecue and hotdogs and we’d make money and then we’d take them to the beach in Williamsburg, I mean Virginia Beach. Rachel Koeniger: That was fun. Dorothy Martin: Yeah the kids, a lot of them didn’t get out like they do nowadays. Jimmy and Blair Wade had them one time and Connie and Chuck Huffman had them, worked with them when they was out during one time. I think I remember, you know, we had I expect with them we had the Gordons and had probably 20, 25 kids at one time working with them. Nowadays they give them money; they don’t work to make it. But we did, well it’s just like, you know, they go from a lot times the circle would want to do things or we’d get the young people to do it and, you know we’d feed the Ruritans, the parents would help for money making projects. Rachel Koeniger: It hasn’t been that long since, well I don’t guess the Easter bit if it’s a band that the middle school . I guess they don’t do that anymore. Dorothy Martin: Well it got to where I don’t know who was advisors the last time, you know, we met every week with them, every Sunday night and then like I said, you know, we played ball at the church and we had the Young Adult Group that played ball out there, a night or two a week too. Rachel Koeniger: How old were they? Dorothy Martin: Well then nobody’s left downstairs but Mc [Sterrett] and Bud [Martin] and Jimmy Wade that was of course that’s been 25, 30 years ago when they were Young Adults probably, and there were a good many of them. Rachel Koeniger: And they played over there? Dorothy Martin: Yeah at the ball diamond. See that was one thing with parking out there, for a number of years , we worked hard. When I was in youth group we worked hard and picked up rocks and stuff and made a ball diamond then but now I realize we do need parking. Rachel Koeniger: Gotta park somewhere. Dorothy Martin: We gotta park-- well and then I think that we need-- it’s gotten so it’s and taken care of and stuff and we need some parking. Rachel Koeniger: Did you all ever play tennis on the tennis courts? Dorothy Martin: Well my kids did, you know, I didn’t. Rachel Koeniger: They were there when you were? Dorothy Martin: No. My kids would play tennis, they went out and played tennis a lot and and they could, they liked to play. But I mean your church and schools are kinda, you know, hub of your community for gatherings and things, I mean some of them had cars but a lot of times you didn’t have ways to go anywhere to get to church. Rachel Koeniger: Well so many people have talked about the school, about how much it meant to them and how much they enjoyed it and the impression that so many of the teachers made. Virginia [Whitesell] was talking this afternoon about Miss Trimmer, you know, how she was hard but she was fair and people respected her. Rachel Koeniger: Yeah I mean and kids, you know, you didn’t-- but you know, now you’d have a place where you could have things but there’s no community place to get together and have except the other schools. [end of interview] DOROTHY MILLER MARTIN INDEX A Anderson, Tommy · 32 Ayres, Janis · 35 B Bailey, Dr. · 27, 39 Bates, Buchanan (Buck) · 24 Bates, Margaret (Mag) Buchanan · 23 Beard, Ann · 8 Beard, Donald · 42 Beard, Joseph · 8 Beard, Mrs. Trenton · 11 Berry, Miss Pet · 4 Blackwell, Mary Katherine · 42 Brown, Betty Pleasants · 26 Brownsburg Bank · 38 Barber Shop · 25 Cannery · 10 Colored School · 10 Doctors · 27 Huffman's Store · 15 Pool Hall · 37 Post Office · 31, 37 Rockbridge Farmer's Co-op · 14 Saturday Nights · 25, 37 School · 4, 23 Shooting · 39 Supinger's Store · 14 Swope's Store · 14 Whitesell's Store · 15, 41 Brownsburg High School Dedication · 23 Brownsburg School · 37 Bible Class · 5 Home Economics · 6 Sports · 5 Buchanan, Eliza · 16 Buchanan, Frances · 5, 16 C Camp Briar Hills · 36 Camp Maxwelton · 36 Carrol, Curtis · 32 Cash, Leonard · 32 Castle Carberry · 39 D Depression Era · 19 E Electricity · 19 Ervine’s Hill · 26 F Farming · 9 Fauber, Roberta Bates · 24 Ferguson, Holly · 8 Ferguson, Keith · 8 Franklin, Dan · 26 H Huffman, Connie and Chuck · 43 Huffman’s Store · 15 Humphreys, Madeline · 39 Hutcheson, Dr. R. G. New Providence Minister · 13 J Jones, Margaret · 16 Jones, Royce · 16 L Lotts, Mack · 42 Lotts, Mack and Ora · 33 Lowe, Nellie · 5 Lunsford, Doris · 42 Lunsford, Phil · 16 M Martin, Adelaide Ervine · 26 Martin, Dorothy Date of Birth · 1 High School Graduation in 1951 · 7 Marriage in 1956 · 7 School Bus Driver · 34 Martin, Joseph Miller · 8 Martin, Pam · 8 Martin, Phillip · 8 Martin, Sidney Brown · 7 Farmer · 8 Martin, Sidney McClure (Mac) · 8 Martin, Teresa Kay · 8 Martin, W.L. {Bud) · 29 McClung Miss Sallie Reid · 11 McCormack, Nancy · 41 McCray, Betty · 32 McCrowell, Mack · 32 McNutt’s Chapel · 33 Miller, Henry · 40 Miller, Joe · 2 Navy · 21 Miller, Mable Gertrude Moran · 2 Miller, Milton · 2, 34 Air Force · 21 Miller, William Bosserman · 2 Miller, William Wayt · 2 Taxi Driver in Washington DC · 18 Moneymaker, Janet · 34 Moran, Joseph Davis · 2 Moran, Lena Bell Whitmore · 2 Morris, Mrs. Vaccination · 28 N New Providence Beard's Hill Easter Sunrise Service · 41 Bible School · 14 Chrysanthemum Festival · 12 Circles · 13 Lawn Party · 12 Outpost Chapels · 32 Sunday School · 11 Youth Group · 41 O Oak Hill Kids · 42 P Pisgah Chapel · 32 Pleasants, Willie Howard · 26 Plummer, Cornelia · 40 Plummer, Dr. Veterinarian · 29 Polio · 29 Porterfield, Frances Craney · 26 Price, RIley · 27 R Reese, Carl (Big Eye) · 34 Ritchie, Herman · 32 S Smiley, Virginia · 32 Sterrett, Louise Martin Doyle · 26 Strain’s Hill · 27 Strickler, Elizabeth Miller · 2, 29 Supinger's Store · 14 Sweet, Charles · 32 Swisher, Lewis · 35 Swoope Mill · 15 Swope’s Store · 14 Swortzel, Elizabeth Jane · 2 T Taylor, Dr. · 27, 38 Telephone · 19 Trimmer, Ocie · 24 W Wade, Jimmy and Blair · 43 Wade, Kite · 35 Wade, Margaret · 16 Wade, Tuck · 35 Wade’s Mill · 15 Walthal, Dr. New Providence Minister · 13 Ward, Lib · 16, 17 Whipple, Mollie Sue Hull · 4, 16 White, Dr. Locke New Providence Minister · 13 White, Mrs. Locke · 11 Whitesell’s Store · 15, 41 Williams, Dr. Joseph · 27, 39 Williams, Elizabeth · 5 Wiseman, Tolerace · 14, 35 World War II · 18 Y Yeakel, Joe · 8 Yeakel, Kathryn · 8 Yeakel, Mary Elizabeth · 22 Yeakel, Mary Elizabeth Martin · 7 Yeakel, Sarah · 8 Yeakel, Steve · 8