ED PATTERSON AN INTERVIEW FOR THE WEEKENDER Brownsburg, Virginia 1997 By: Ed Patterson and Deborah Sensabaugh TRANSCRIBED FOR THE BROWNSBURG MUSEUM January 1997 Interview with Ed Patterson By Deborah Sensabaugh Sensabaugh: There we go. [NOTE: Tape seems to start at this point, although this is not the beginning of either side.] Ag Patterson: We’ll just do it when you start? Put it here? Sensabaugh: Yeah. It should pick up. Ag Patterson: Speak up. Sensabaugh: Well, we don’t have any background noise, it should pick up fairly well. I always sound like a small child, so when you play that back ten years from now and say, “Who’s that little kid talking to Ed?” that’s me. I sound terrible on a tape! I sound squeaky and – Ag Patterson: Ten years? Sensabaugh: Twenty years? Ag Patterson: Yeah, sure! Thanks! Sensabaugh: My great grandfather lived to be 105. Ag Patterson: Well, we’re going to live to be 100. Sensabaugh: Well sure! No problem with that. Yeah. I had some mixed reaction on the article last week. [NOTE: Sensabaugh is referring to an article published in the February 1, 1997 issue of The Weekender titled “Brownsburg School Is Being Torn Down But Memories Still Remain”.] Of course, Betty Natkin had called me and was all hot and bothered about it. Ed Patterson [NOTE: referred to in the rest of this transcription as “Patterson”]: Oh yeah! [laugh] Ag Patterson: Shall we turn this off? Is there a tape in there? Sensabaugh: No you can leave it on, because - Ag Patterson: Don’t want Betty to hear anything. Sensabaugh: Well, no. What – well, and, as I explained to her, the time for investigative reporting was when the controversy about what exactly to do with the school was going on. The time for that is not now. And, as I explained to her, when I asked Darryl Woodson’s permission to write about Brownsburg because of the school, we had thought there might have been time to still get the word out and have someone step forward that would say, “I have a compatible use for that school.” And when I found out there was no longer that option, that they had already started to tear it down, and just what kind of bad shape it was in. Because Richard Anderson showed me yesterday the termite damage to the wood and all that. Ag Patterson: Richard Anderson or [unintelligible]? Sensabaugh: Richard Anderson. He’s tearing the floor out to build furniture out of. Patterson: Oh, Richard up at – Sensabaugh: Up at Rockbridge Baths. Yeah, that Richard Anderson. The Rockbridge Baths Richard Anderson. And showed me some of the damage and all that. And, as I said to Betty, I said, “I wrote what I wrote not to be a good reporter, but to be a good citizen of Rockbridge County.” And the fact that it’s time for people to go on, and time for people to be reconciled with what happened. Because it’s too late to change anything now. And everybody has to live with everybody around here. So, I said I didn’t feel that it was up to me to bring up a lot of the past and what this person had said, and that person had said, and what this person had done, and that person had done. I told her I didn’t feel that that was – that that was my position. That my position was to say, “Everybody did what they felt they could at the time.” And that it’s now time to appreciate what happened and to go on and to learn from it. So she was happy with that, and I hope everybody else is! I was -- oh, wow! But, you know that, and I did – I talked to Jack Heslep. I talked to some of the other people, and I did get the other side of the story. And I just felt when I went to write it – I just felt you know, why stir things up and get anger up again, you know? And I just said, “No.” I just – that’s not why I wrote things, and I can’t do that. So a hundred years from now, some poor researcher is going to read what I wrote and think that’s the whole story, so I don’t know. But that was why I wrote what I did. And I talked to Dick Barnes, and I told him that. I said, “That’s why I wrote it that way.” You know, I know that there were a lot of issues involved, and I just wasn’t going to bring that up and hurt feelings, and get people arguing again. You know all that kind of stuff. Patterson: Well, as far as I’m concerned, we accomplished the main thing. Most everybody felt that if the school is not used properly, it should be torn down. Sensabaugh: And you all have to live here with it. Patterson: Right. And there are so many things that could have happened. It could have gone on the open market. Somebody could have bought it. There’ve been several schools that have been converted into apartments, and most likely it would be low income. Sensabaugh: HUD. Yeah. The Housing and Urban Development. Patterson: And that kind of thing. And then the whole town would be gone. Sensabaugh: Right. Patterson: I think we’ve accomplished the main thing by keeping it out of the hands of somebody that would [unintelligible] Sensabaugh: Um hmm. Patterson: And I – we have complete confidence that Dick Barnes will leave it as best as he can do for the community. Sensabaugh: Um hmm. Yeah. I think – you know, I hate to see old things torn down, but I had to look at it from the point: “What if I lived here?” You know. There are things in my neighborhood, and of course in my neighborhood it’s mostly just suburban-type development. And I don’t want that there. You know. And I’m selling my place because it’s too many houses and getting too crowded and I have a farm – horse operation and everything. And you know, I had to put myself in the middle of Brownsburg and say, “Well, what would I feel like if a factory went in?” or some usage like that that wouldn’t be compatible with the neighborhood. And I agree with ya’ll. [Laugh] Patterson: Well, we had a survey – we made up this survey whether to write different options, and in the order of your preference. And I know I had, I think I had the third thing down, it had about ten places. And I had about the second or third to tear it down. If it couldn’t be used for education or some sort of thing for the community that would make a nice thing for the community, then get rid of it. Don’t let it stand there and have the windows get broken out and – Sensabaugh: Yeah, and it just looks bad. Patterson: And the roof leaking in. I think if I’d been making the choice, I’d have said “Wait another year or so and see if there’s any other options.” But the committee did it’s work on that, and I’m satisfied. Sensabaugh: If you would have waited another year, we’re trying to get – that’s what the phone call I was on this morning, was a lady who works with a private Snakefoot School down in southern Rockbridge County, and with a lot of the home schoolers. And I was suggesting to her that they get a coalition of home school and private school people together and share their resources and have a central location. And we both moaned, “Oh, the Brownsburg school would have been great for that!” But whether a group that small would have had the money to come in and turn the school into something that they could have used, you know, that was feasible for them financially when Dabney and Blue Ridge and all those couldn’t do that. I don’t know if they could have. But they – you know, I told them I would try and help them get all their factions together and work in that direction. Patterson: Well that’s all – they gave a good effort. That’s what is, and I don’t see why anybody shouldn’t [unintelligible] Sensabaugh: Well, I am, but then I don’t have to live here. [Laugh] But that’s why I wrote it the way I did. Patterson: Well – Sensabaugh: I felt that I compromised journalistic integrity in favor of a little bit of grace and mercy! [Laugh] Patterson: I thought the article was very good. Sensabaugh: I enjoyed it. And I changed a lot. When I started out, I was just, “Somebody’s got to be hung over this building being torn down!” But the more I talked to people and the more I looked at the situation, the more I was able to see that that was not a wise reaction on my part. Patterson: Well, there’s bound to be Betty Natkin – Sensabaugh: [Laugh] I know. I know. It creates an interesting mix in society. [Laugh] Patterson: Oh yeah. Sensabaugh: Tell me what you remember about Brownsburg. Patterson: Which direction do you want to go? Brownsburg – it seems like people want to dwell on the bad things that have happened in Brownsburg: the murders, and all that that made history. There’s been a lot of good things. Sensabaugh: Let’s focus on the good things. I’m not saying let’s forget about the murders. I want to know eventually what you know about the Miller-Walker feud. ‘Cause I’m doing other research about that. But, yeah, let’s talk about what life was like. Patterson: Well there’s a lot of other things. The way the Blackwell thing was just about as dramatic, but anyway, it got a lot of publicity and all. And there’s been other things. There’s a lot of terrible tragedies. But I think people are inclined to dwell on those. That’s what made Brownsburg famous. It was the “Murder Capital” at one time. [Phone rings in background] Patterson: Don’t put this in the article, but I’d rather concentrate on some of the good things. Sensabaugh: That’s fine with me. Patterson: You won’t have as much to write. Sensabaugh: [Laugh] Patterson: But, for instance, I think the community has always had a history of cooperation and I made a few little notes here because I can’t depend on my memory. Ag Patterson: Excuse me, but that grist mill was G – I – S – I – M – E – R. Patterson: Well, good for her! Ag Patterson: G – I – S – I – M – E – R. Patterson: I was thinking “Gainer.” When the old school – that’s been – you’ve probably written about that. But when the old Academy was first – came into being, it was formed – it was a stock company formed. You probably know about that. And I have a little information on that somewhere. The people who were involved. Several of them were ancestors or cousins. And that was a cooperative thing that went through. And as far as I’m concerned, the old academy was one of the most historical things that’s been in Brownsburg. And not long after that – soon after the Civil War, I think the date was probably about 1869, the colored community got together and built a church [Asbury United Methodist Church] which has been in church ever since. The bank was a community thing with the community people stepping in for the bank. They got together and sold stock. The ones that had money to put into stock bought stock in the thing. And the ones that didn’t have money, which included my dad – of course that was in horse’s days – they ended up hauling materials for the bank and like that. And they, as I understand it, the whole community got involved in building the bank which is, of course, still in operation. That was in 1913. And the – well, this house [2744 Brownsburg Turnpike] was built for doctors. That was much later, about 1925. And again, the community gathered and put up the money. I don’t think they had stock certificates, but they had something similar. Everybody that had money in it got a share of the small dividend. It wasn’t a money-making thing. The Water Corporation is the most recent thing. We formed a corporation and sold stock for the community to come together and put in the water system without any outside help whatever. We’ve never had any kind of outside help, and it’s been very successful. That was about 1965. And let me see if I’ve got anything else. The colored school – that wasn’t a – wait a minute. That wasn’t as I know about it. The fact that people seem to have very little information about the colored school. I remember it quite well. And there were several of the colored people – Ag tells me I’m supposed to call them “Black” now, that they preferred to be called “Black.” But I still – when I grew up they were known as “colored people.” But the colored school was down here for a number of years. I don’t know exactly when, but probably in the 1860’s or ‘70’s, my – well, my grandfather gave the land for it. Then it reverted back to the farm when they discontinued that sort of practice for schools in those days. The – there was a library in Brownsburg. Not as we think of it. A “roving” library, I guess would be the word for it. But it was a community thing that was started by Samuel Brown who was the second preacher out there [at New Providence Presbyterian Church]. Mary Moore’s husband. I have a book from that – that was in that library. So that tale goes. [unintelligible] The colored people that played a prominent part in the community have gotten very little recognition, as I see it. For instance, there were thirteen Black men from Brownsburg that picked up their mail at the Post Office – I’m talking from about a quarter of a mile around – that were in the Service during World War I. I didn’t run across that until recently, and I just saw a listing of the World War I men from Rockbridge County. And actually there was two others from the outskirts. But there was thirteen that gave Brownsburg addresses. One of the others – one of the others that lived in Brownsburg, he grew up in Brownsburg, but he gave his address as Buena Vista, but it’s probably was just because he was working in Buena Vista at the time. It was only about three of those that I didn’t know. The Cunningham sisters [Alice and Helen] and Jack Heslep have been a big support to Brownsburg in recent years. I guess you would list them that way: The Cunninghams and Jack Heslep, because they – well, you know the situation. They put up the money, but a lot of it Jack was responsible for. He’d suggest to them things, you know. They played a major role in getting this water corporation started. They gave us the lot we used to drill the well on, and put the pumphouse and [??] on. And everything that we’ve done with the water system, or anything else in Brownsburg, they’ve been anxious to be a part of. Because the water system – they weren’t even on the water system. They were just – owned land close by. The – Do you – well, we’ll come back to that. Some of these things that were going on back – you asked me the other day over the phone what things did I remember, and another small thing there in this cooperation thing is we’ve got streetlight in Brownsburg. That was done solely by the citizens. They raised money to have the streetlight put in, and they paid their bill on them for a number of years. Then finally when the County started taking over that paying and some of the other small localities, they decided they should take over Brownsburg, too. I jotted down a few things. I’m sure there are others that I wouldn’t know about over the years, but that’s about the ones I would have heard about, or happened in my time, or I was involved in. Have you done – do you have a lot of information about the stagecoach times? Sensabaugh: No. Patterson: Well, this was, of course this was main route from Brownsburg – excuse me, from Lexington to Staunton. That, I suppose was when it got the name Brownsburg-Middlebrook Turnpike. This was the change-over for the horses and carriages. The old barn stood up here until recent years. It was used for the – in fact the stagecoaches were in the barn, and they kept the horses in the street level. [??] and kept the horses in under. Sensabaugh: Whereabouts was that at? Up on – which side of the road was it on? Patterson: It’s no – there was an old building that was the old filling station. You can still tell. Right just ten feet from the old filling station. They just threw them in beside there for – there used to be a – they put the filling station they put cars in on that thing to change the oil and everything. And you can still see – in fact, there’s still several old rocks there that was part of the foundation for this old building. It hasn’t been gone many years. I can remember it perfectly well. Playing in the old building. Everybody didn’t think much about trespassing. [Laugh] In those days. Everybody went where they wanted to go, and nobody seemed to care. There were at least two saloons in Brownsburg. I imagine the big part of the business was from stagecoach business. There were some provisions – I don’t know how much. There wasn’t any hotel, but I’m sure that the people riding the stagecoach on occasion would be spending the night on the road. One of these saloons was later used for church services. Sensabaugh: Was that while it was still a saloon? Or afterwards? Patterson: No. No. This was, well, I remember this. But there’s a lot of stories like that from this church. Mrs. [Mamie] Morris, for instance, who had – she was a – I’m afraid to say what denomination she was, because I’m not sure. I believe – you’d better not put this down. I believe she was a Morman. But she was very – she had a very active – she started out in the old house right across from Whitesells with the high porch where the two Bobs live [2671 Brownsburg Turnpike]. And it was built and used as the saloon downstairs. [unintelligible] And then she built the church [Friends Lighthouse Mission Church], a very nice little church, right in the corner of her lot. Of course, that came almost directly in front of the colored church. And Mrs. Morris was a very respected lady. She was always bringing people in. She was out – she didn’t have a car, didn’t drive. But she did quite a bit of traveling involved in getting her denomination – she was always bringing somebody in. She’d find somebody that was out somewhere that was down and out, homeless. And she was pretty famous. I don’t know how she supported all that operation, but it was probably from outside thing. Sensabaugh: Do you know about when, or what year that might have been? Just kind of in general? Patterson: I don’t know when she came there. It was before my time. But I don’t imagine it was too long before. My guess would be probably before or during World War I. And that’s just a guess. But I know the property had belonged to other people back in history. She was an old lady, and apparently was a widow. I remember from the late twenties. A small white-haired lady who was very kind. Even after she died, she left a family there that she’d brought in, that she’d picked up from somewhere that was down and out. They lived there in the house until it was sold. She even started a little hospital. Have you been to the Bobs’ house? Sensabaugh: Uh uh. Patterson: You know that little log house in the back? They fixed that up. Mrs. Morris, she didn’t build it for a hospital, but she converted that into a hospital. A two-bed hospital, and she had arrangements with the doctor who lived here in this house [2744 Brownsburg Turnpike]. She had a – I don’t know whether she had a full time nurse. Seems to me like it was some – a couple of the ladies in the community that sort of volunteered to help her that had nursing experience. One guy died up there in the hospital. And one of these is an old fellow that she brought in. A real nice old man. I think maybe he had been a preacher. But he came in there, and I knew Mr. Osbourne. I remember him very well. An old fellow, stooped and all. And he died and was buried up there in the yard. There’s also a baby buried there. I’m jumping around from one thing to the other – Sensabaugh: Oh, that’s alright. Patterson: -- but you’re going to – I’ll bet you’re going to pick out what you – Sensabaugh: I’ll sort it out. Patterson: In my opinion, the two biggest celebrations that have been here were when they dedicated the school – the school that they’re tearing down now. There was quite a crowd of people, and all the dignitaries: the Governor of the State, state senators and all. I have a – we’ll go upstairs in a minute, and I’ll show you a bulletin on that. It tells you who all was involved in that. Sensabaugh: Wow. Patterson: The Washington and Lee President and the VMI – whatever his title was. State Senators. Well, I started out with the two biggest days that I know of. The other would be our 200th Anniversary. I have some articles on that, but you’re probably up on that pretty well. Sensabaugh: No, huh uh. No. Haven’t heard anything about that. Patterson: Really? Well, in ’94 – no, ’93. Sensabaugh: Oh, yeah! I remember. No, I didn’t come to that cause I was working. I was out on the trail. Patterson: You probably weren’t invited. [Laugh] Sensabaugh: [Laugh] Linda – my friend, Linda White, up at Whitehall Farm? Patterson: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Sensabaugh: Henry Boswell Jones’ farm? She told me about it. They came down, and they brought some of their things from the farm. Patterson: Yeah. She was very – that was another thing. And everybody was so cooperative. And it just went off so well. There just wasn’t – as far as I know, there just wasn’t a hitch. I had a part in that. Organizing and so forth. You don’t need to put that in. We couldn’t decide how to advertise the thing. We didn’t want to necessarily advertise, but we still wanted to get the word out to people that had lived here that we’d like – like for them to come back. And one reason we couldn’t do it – well, the Cunninghams is another thing. The Cunninghams furnished the meal – which was considerable. But if word had gotten out that there was going to be a free meal and everybody come to Brownsburg that day, then there might have been 500, but there might have been 3,000! Sensabaugh: [Laugh] Patterson: And there was no way to control that, so we finally – I think it was put in the paper, but mostly by word of mouth. And the wording was “anybody that had ever considered Brownsburg home.” Naturally we got some that had no connection to Brownsburg, but it eliminated some, and it eliminated – I’ve heard of quite a few people that would liked to have come, but they said, “No, I never did live in Brownsburg.” Sensabaugh: [Laugh] Well, now I could have gotten the newspaper to send me if I would have been in town that weekend. Patterson: Oh yeah. But that’s the way it was – we didn’t want a lot of publicity. But the word did get out good, and there were at least three loads of colored people from Washington that came back. They weren’t – hadn’t all lived here, but their parents or family had. Several of them had lived here. It was just – everything just went without a hitch. We had quite a few people, “Well, I went to school there, I should be able to come.” And we just sort of stuck to that: If you ever called it home. And we had – we prepared for – we finally settled that we’d tell the Cunninghams that we’d prepare for 450. And it came out just almost exactly. We had a – Ag [Patterson] kept the registration sheet up there, so we can go back and look and see who was here. Sensabaugh: Neat! Patterson: That’s the kind of thing I really get a kick out of. You know, the old folks, and especially those colored people that had never been back. Some of them I didn’t know who they were. But I got to find out who most of them were before the day was over. We had that up at the – where the two Bobs live [2671 Brownsburg Turnpike]. And they were – they went to a lot of extra effort for that. They just turned the place over to us – to the community. Sensabaugh: What are their names? What are their last names? Patterson: Bob Capito and – I’ll have to call Ag. The other one changed his name. The other one was Gilbert at that time. But he had his name changed – for a good reason. He was named for a step-father. Anyway, he changed it back to – I won’t go into that [unintelligible] that’s personal. Sensabaugh: Well, yeah, but in 50 or 60 years, that’ll be part of the history of who lived there. Patterson. Well, Bob Gilbert. He was Bob Gilbert then. Sensabaugh: That’s who he was then. Okay. Patterson: Now there are a lot of things back – that used to be here. The first school, you probably – that was right on the corner here. Where Casey – do you know Casey [Gwyn Campbell]? Sensabaugh: Uh uh. Patterson: She lives on the corner, the northeast – Sensabaugh: The farmhouse that sits kind of back off the road? Patterson: No, no. The house right here. Sensabaugh: The house right here. Patterson: Right up the road. Where the road comes up from Fairfield [2766 Brownsburg Turnpike]. The blue house. She has a garage. Her garage is right there now. That old garage was torn down, and back to the former owner – he built that. But the old building that used to be there – I can’t verify this. But I think was still the same building that I remember was the first school in Brownsburg. And that was, as I remember, something like 1830. And that was probably only used – and again I’m guessing – it was assumed it was only used until they built the Academy in 1850. I have a picture of my sister standing in front of the Post Office. And the Post Office was this old building down here, which most likely the same old building was the first school. And this picture was taken by – probably about 1919 or 20 going by the size of my sister. She unfortunately died in ’24. I just don’t remember her. It was after I was born. And I’ve looked several times recently for that picture, and I can’t come up with it. I really hope I’ve got that picture. Sensabaugh: Yeah. Patterson: There were two mills in the village. And one, that’s what she looking for a while ago. The name of the mill that stood over here at the foot of the hill. Where you come down the steep hill to the first little bridge. Mrs. McManama owns that now [2580 Sterrett Road]. I used to hear my dad talking about it, and I’d forgotten the name. I asked her yesterday. G – I – S – I – M – E – R. Gisimer. I was thinking Gainer. But I don’t remember that old mill, but I’ve heard my dad talking about it. This old mill [Patterson Mill] was in our family which stood right below the bridge. That one shows the old iron bridge. Sensabaugh: Oh, neat. Patterson: It was right directly in front of Janis Ayres’s house [Old School Lane]. And the bridge is on down – well, it doesn’t show anything there on the house or anything, does it? Sensabaugh: No. Patterson: That was taken before that house was built there. I don’t know when it was taken. Oddly enough, I don’t know where these pictures came from. But the mill had been out of use for some time, by the appearance of it. But going by the trees and things, I would guess this picture was taken in 1920 or before. I remember this old tree, of course it was much bigger. I remember the stump stood there. See my house, our house is here. This is just the corner. And that was right down over [unintelligible] the hill there from where our house is. It’s over where Harvey [Nye] lives [2843 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Sensabaugh: So the mills weren’t too far from each other? Patterson: No, no. Four-hundred yards. Something like that. All in the same – well, my dad used to say that his granddaddy owned these two, and the old mill down at Bill Dunlap’s, too [803 Hays Creek Road]. I know I’ve got the history on the old mill down there [McClung’s Mill]; how it came up through, and it was sold by my granddaddy who’d inherited it from his father. By the way, that’s supposed to be the first mill that was in operation in Rockbridge County. Sensabaugh: What, that – Patterson: The big one down here at the Dunlaps. I have some write-ups on that. But this old bridge is very familiar to me. That’s exactly the way it looked when I came along. And I only remember the foundation of the mill. My uncle used to keep sheep. Had poles across there and straw on top of it, and kept sheep in it. And these [photos] apparently were taken about the same time from the shape of the tree. And, of course, there were a lot of other things in my dad’s time: a cannery, for instance. Right behind us, down there you can see where the water way, you can see where the water came into – I don’t know what a cannery looks like. [??] it was graded out there for the water supply and all that. The – I’m sure you know about the [Wilbourn] saddle. Sensabaugh: I know about the saddle. I wouldn’t mind knowing more about it. Patterson: Well, -- Sensabaugh: I didn’t know where the harness shop was – the saddle Patterson: Right across the street. Now, I’m not – I can’t be positive if it’s the same old building as this old barn that’s trying to fall down and won’t anybody give it a shove [laugh]. I’m not sure it’s the same building. It doesn’t look like the type of building that you think would have been built. Of course, it may not have been built for that. It could have been they were just using it because that’s where they were. And I have a picture – it’s sort of blurred of a copy of – [End of Side A.] Patterson: Now there was at least one still that operated in Brownsburg. And I remember the old still house. I played in it. Sensabaugh: Where was it? Patterson: The road – alley up there marked “Still Alley”? Sensabaugh: Um hmm. Patterson. It was down at the creek. And I guess that belongs to Frances Porterfield now, the property. Sensabaugh: Somebody told me I should talk to her. Patterson: You definitely should. I was going to tell you that. Sensabaugh: Does she live up here? Patterson: Oh yeah. Sensabaugh: How do I get a hold of her? Patterson: Right there at that alley there’s a long old house. It could be the oldest, at least one of the oldest houses in Brownsburg. And it was built for something else. She told me, but I’ve forgotten. It’s an odd shape. A long building. It doesn’t look like it, but it’s a log house. I think I’m correct on this – Mr. George Day ran the still beginning in my dad’s time. There’s somebody else that you might could get some good information from. Do you know Annabelle Borthwick? An elderly lady in Fairfield? Sensabaugh: Yeah, I know her! Patterson: She always said, well – She and I’ve gotten to be real close. My son lives over there right in front of her, and I have a field there that I keep cattle just for a hobby in the summertime. Of course, I’d see her out, and we’d get together just to talk about some of this kind of stuff. And she told me several times, “Oh, I’ve spent most of my life in Fairfield, but Brownsburg is home.” Sensabaugh: Laugh. Patterson: She was born up here in the house where the two Bobs live. [2671 Brownsburg Turnpike] Her dad was a – no, well, her granddaddy and her uncle both were doctors. One of them lived there. I guess it was her granddaddy who was a doctor there. He was there at the time Dr. [Zachariah] Walker was in the house next door. The Dr. Walker – Sensabaugh: So that was the Walker’s house, the one next door [2685 Brownsburg Turnpike]? Patterson: The white house where you turn to go up to the schoolhouse. Sensabaugh: Yeah. Patterson: The big white square house there. Sensabaugh: Yeah, I took note of that yesterday. Patterson: It’s my understanding that Dr. Walker built that and he left it to this Hope Irvine. Sensabaugh: Hope Irvine. Um hmm. Patterson: And she used the money from her inheritance, I understand, and went to school and became a nurse, and spent her life nursing. And what I remember is after she retired and came back and lived up here. I knew her quite well. She was Mrs. Whipple’s – she was Fred Whipple’s aunt. There’s a lot of things you could write a story on. Miss Trimmer, for instance. To anybody of my generation, Miss [Osie] Trimmer was a legend in Brownsburg. As a school principal. She ran the school; she controlled the school. She had her methods. Whipping, as we called it. In Japan now days, they call it “caning” don’t they? [Laugh] But whipping was very common and very effective! Sensabaugh: She didn’t spare the rod! Patterson: No, she did not! And she wasn’t very popular with the general public, but most of the ones that went to school up there – she was there when I started in the first grade and still there for several years after I finished high school. And I think the majority of them would have sort of the feeling I did that we were scared of her, and, you might say, hated her. But in the end, after we were through school – you ask me about now, “Who was the best teacher you ever had?” Miss Trimmer. And she was – you, or people now – it would be hard to believe what all she did at school. She taught. She taught two years of Latin, two classes of Latin. And this doesn’t sound reasonable, but I don’t remember anybody else teaching English, so she apparently taught four classes of English. And you’d think that would take up all of anybody’s time, but she had a Glee Club, a very active Glee Club, and she was in charge of the Glee Club. She didn’t want anybody helping her with the thing. It was her Glee Club. And they were good. Always had a good Glee Club. She was very interested in dramatics. They put on three plays a year to help support the athletics and do things that they needed money around the school for. There were no men teachers, and basketball and baseball were the only competitive sports we played then, and she did all of the coaching. Basketball and baseball, boys and girls. She wasn’t a coach; she thought she was. [Laugh] Sensabaugh: [Laugh] Patterson: But we did what she said to do, whether it was right or wrong. And her car was available for everything and anything. If somebody got sick – if a kid got sick in school – or course, there were very few high school boys driving. But if a child would get sick in school, well, she’d put one of the high school boys – took her car and took them home. Ball games, her car was loaded up with kids to go because they didn’t have buses to go to ball games at the other schools in the county. And well, they scheduled games with several Augusta County schools too. But she was always there, and in charge. Sensabaugh: Do you know how to spell her last name? Patterson: T – R – I – M – M – E – R. Osie Trimmer. Sensabaugh: What was her first name? Patterson: Osie. But she had the most complete control of a school, and a lot of people said she even controlled the community. [Laugh] But a lot of people respected her, but mostly I think because the kids were afraid of her. She kept them afraid. She wanted them to be afraid of her. Sensabaugh: She kept them in line, huh? Patterson: Right. You didn’t leave that school without her permission. And if you did, you’d get a whipping when you got back. I guess I was average. If she accused a child and gave him a lecture about something he’d done wrong, even if you were completely innocent, you didn’t have the guts to tell her. You just stood there and took it. Another thing that was sort of unique, children – students entered and left the school, the school building marching. We had a drummer. A high school boy beat the drum and all the kids would line up outside when they would go in before school. Of course, in bad weather, naturally we couldn’t. But we lined up outside and marched into the school into your room. And everybody knew where to line up. Each grade lined up separately. And knew when their turn was to go in. And of course we were using both – two buildings then. The old academy and what we referred to as “the new building,” the stucco building that’s there now. We marched in and out of the building. Sensabaugh: If you tried to do that now, kids would be flying everywhere! Patterson: Well, she wouldn’t – she’d have been jailed in less than a week if she would drive a child crazy the way she did! But it was, it was very effective. She had a – I remember she used to brag about the percentage of how well Brownsburg students did in college. When they went to college they were prepared to go to college. Of course, it wasn’t a big percentage that went, but as a rule, they were ready to go. Sensabaugh: Well, I think they need a little bit more of that today. Patterson: Oh, yeah. Sensabaugh: My daughter went to a private school, a very strict school, and she’s always done fine. Patterson: Of course, school was compulsory in my time. In Miss Trimmer’s time. But they didn’t pass. If they didn’t know enough to go up to the next grade – if they stayed in one grade for three years, well, they didn’t go up until they were ready to go up. And of course, it was compulsory until 16, and some of them became 16 and were still in the fifth or sixth grade until when they could drop out. And a lot of them look forward to the day they were 16 so they wouldn’t have to come to school anymore. I can remember very well, I can remember being in the grade with boys – and I guess girls, too – that were six or seven years older than me. The colored people – I wish you would go and talk to – Sensabaugh: – Frances? Patterson: Frances. And remind her some of the things that I’ve said. Because she might – she might think – I don’t think – all these men being in World War I. I doubt if she would realize that, but I’ll show her that some time she’s down here. Her dad was one. The majority of them were people she and I knew and they lived right here in the community. A whole lot of them just worked as farm hands. Quite a few of them have worked over at our place. I grew up across the creek over there where Harvey Nye lives [2843 Brownsburg Turnpike]. If you needed extra help, you’d come up the street and see who wasn’t working, and Dad would, the night before threshing – you had to have extra people for threshing or filling silos – just get on the phone or run around the night before and gather up a bunch of people, along about 10 or 12 extra people. Of course that was, I’m thinking mostly in the Depression times. In the 30’s a lot of men came back that had been out in the world and lost their job, or lost their business or something. They came back home. Sensabaugh: And even though it was the Depression there was not a crime problem or anything? Even though people didn’t have anything? Patterson: Not crime as we see it today. Now to get back to this thing I said I’d just as soon not dwell on. On Saturday nights, going to town for all these country, going to town was coming to Brownsburg. And that’s what they called it, “going to town.” And the streets would be lined up clear on down and beyond where the Fairfield road comes in and around everywhere to get a car parked. It was cars parked at these stores. At that time there was, well, about four – there wasn’t but about – at least about four stores that were just full. You couldn’t hardly walk in a store. You’d have to go in, and of course, I was a teenager. They didn’t allow us to come up the street, especially on Saturday night, until I after was grown. But you’d go in one of those stores, and you’d just have to push your way around. People were just talking. They came to do their trading, and in most cases they were trading eggs or chickens or something for a little bit of groceries, or they were getting money back for them. There were very few groceries that the farm people bought. But all of the stores – or at least three of them – would trade in chickens and buy eggs and things. Somebody would come along on Saturday night and gather up the hucksters, they called them. They’d come along and pick up the eggs and chickens. We used to – this one guy in the store in the old building here where Dick Barnes – he was just an old country guy and everybody’s friend. You never heard anybody say anything negative about old Bob Supinger. Teddy, we called him. But he didn’t keep good records or anything. He was just there, and somebody would come in – come to the door and say “I got five gallons of gas.” And he’d say “Alright.” And maybe sometime later he’d go down and write it down, but maybe he wouldn’t. Just easy-going, never worried about anything. They had – they’d keep chickens down in under. And somebody would bring in a couple of old chickens, he’d throw them up on the scale and weigh them, and take them to the back door and throw them down the steps. That was in the same building that’s here. Actually the part that the chickens were has been torn off. But old Teddy would come back, and then of course candy was all loose. You’d put it in there and you’d reach in get how many pieces you wanted and throw it in a paper bag. There wasn’t any – he didn’t have a spigot there I don’t reckon to wash his hands. I don’t know what he washed his hands in. [Laugh] But that was sort of common in a lot of these old country stores. But he was just such a character. Easy-going, and everybody liked him. Everybody trusted him, and he trusted everybody else. I’m sure he lost a lot of money, but he didn’t worry about it, and lots of days he didn’t even know about it. People would get things he’d forget to write down. There was an undertaker here for many years. Whitesell. John Layton was the last. He and his mother ran the operation after his dad died. About the time he was finishing high school and a year or two after. Sensabaugh: Now is this the John Whitesell that lives up here? He was an undertaker? Patterson: His father was the undertaker. Sensabaugh: And he took over Patterson: And as he was growing up, well, he helped his father as a teenager. His dad died very sudden, and John was about a junior, I guess, in high school. So they continued to operate the business and they had a – I guess it was an uncle, Miley, in Lexington. You’ve heard of the Mileys? Sensabaugh: Um hmm. Patterson: Mr. Whitesell’s mother was a Miley – she was descended from the Mileys. So anyway, this Mr. Miley, the undertaker in Lexington, did their embalming during that period of time until they finally went out of business. Sensabaugh: Now did they have the store at that time? Patterson: Um hmm. Sensabaugh: You could get anything there, even a coffin! [Laugh] Patterson: Yeah, that was upstairs. Well, originally, they didn’t have the store. I remember when Mr. Whitesell opened up the little thing there. I mean, of course, the undertaking wasn’t a full-time job. They needed something else going on. But the house was built, I’m sure, with the business in the house. A combination. The upper part originally became the store, and then John added on that wing running south. He’d bought – there was an old house there; a colored couple lived there. And he bought that property and extended the store part on out there. But you went in through the store to get upstairs to where the caskets were kept. And there were – this isn’t historical, I guess, but there were two barbershops. Bud Wade operated a barbershop in Brownsburg for over 60 years. He started the – he opened the first shop the year I was born – in ’21. Stayed as long as he could. Then he finally got down to where he was just coming in a couple of hours a day. Maybe three days a week. And then sometimes he missed a few weeks. He was barbering until he was well past 80. The house [2682 Brownsburg Turnpike] where the Greenes – do you know the Greenes? That’s the house this side of Whitesell’s [2664 Brownsburg Turnpike]. That was where a colored man operated a barbershop there. Now that was a little before my time. But it wasn’t too long before, because I can remember people talking about – I think his name was Charlie Franklin. Some of those things you might, if you talk to Frances, you need to sort of verify. She can probably tell you when he was there. She and I are near the same age. She might even remember when he was there. What other kind of things are you interested in? Sensabaugh: Oh, this is great! Anything else you can remember like this. Patterson: I guess there’ve been very few notorious people coming from Brownsburg. However, Governor Mann lived in Brownsburg as a child. Again, I don’t remember when he was Governor, but my guess would be around the turn of the century, which means as a child he would have been back in the mid- to late- maybe Civil War times. I don’t know that’s when. But I’ve always heard that, and I think that is documented that he lived here as a child. That’s up where the Drivers live [22 Hays Creek Road]. I’ve got a thing up there on the history of the colored church [Asbury United Methodist Church], but Frances, and I’m sure she – I’ve heard, well, slight comments about the colored people are not recognized in these things that are written up in these things in the papers. Sensabaugh: Well, I’m going to talk to her, probably next week. I was going to finish it up this week, but February is Black History Month, so I thought I would talk to her about the black community in Brownsburg, and tie that into Black History Month, and kind of tack it on the end so it kind of serves for both. Patterson: The history of the church up there, she has that for sure. I have a copy. Made up in a little booklet that they had. A little celebration up there a few years ago. In fact, we go to most anything special up at the colored church, we usually go to. It’s usually half white people. Especially to the singing. Sensabaugh: Oh yeah, they sing so beautifully. Patterson: Back when – I guess it was in the early ‘30’s, there were four young boys here – four colored guys that had a quartet. And they were good enough that they auditioned – I’m not – again, Frances maybe could tell you. But I think they went to Chicago and auditioned. None of them had any money. I doubt if any of them could read music. Sensabaugh: Wow. Patterson: But they just had outstanding voices. They’re all dead. But I remember them quite well. In fact, one of them worked at our home. He died – that particular one died real young. Sensabaugh: I’ll ask her about that. Patterson: Betty over at the – Betty Brown is also – she’s in a different generation than Frances and me, but she keeps up. But I think you can find out pretty much from Frances. Be sure and give the Cunninghams and Jack [Heslep] credit for things that they have done for the community. This shouldn’t be on there. Turn that thing off. [Tape stops] Patterson: [Tape resumes, sound quality is very poor.] When Douglas’ mother was in school [unintelligible]. I’m sure there’s a quite a few others. There’s the Buchanan name mentioned and several other names that I wasn’t familiar with that mention a child being witnesses. Sensabaugh: Amazing. It’s something that was wild. I mean, I mean, you know, carrying the guns and everything, it’s like – whoa! But I guess because the Civil War had just been over. Patterson: Well, another thing that seems sort of unique when you think of it today that the warrant was sworn out in the morning and by five o’clock the same afternoon they’d had the trial and three were dead. Sensabaugh: That’s true. Patterson: And now you have to wait six months before a lawyer gets the facts together. [Laugh] Sensabaugh: True. True. That’s why Jefferson said, the right to an expedient, or an immediate trial or whatever. Whatever he said. Anything else, or is that about all for that one? I can’t ask you questions because I don’t know anything about it. Patterson: Well, I guess so unless there might be some specific details. But I think that pretty much covers it. Sensabaugh: Are the Moneymakers related to the Millers? Or did they buy it? Patterson: No, the Millers, I guess, raised Mrs. Moneymaker. That’s Betty Belle. I don’t know from what stage. But she lived with the Millers and she referred to them as “Uncle George” and Janet [??], I believe was her name. And she just lived them, and then when she married Ross Moneymaker, Ross moved into this tremendous house that several families could live in at one time. So Ross moved in, and that’s back in my earliest recollection, when Ross and Betty Belle were married, and he was there running the farm. Mr. Miller had gotten too old to operate the farm. And when the Millers died, they left Betty Belle a share – probably it was – I don’t remember the details on that. But my guess would be that Miss Sue and George Miller probably left Betty Belle two-thirds of the farm, and Ross bought the other third. So they ended up as sole owners of Bellevue. Sensabaugh: That’s right. I forgot it had name to it. Yeah. Okay. Well, might as well turn it over. [Tape stops and then resumes] Patterson: As terrible as this tragedy was [Walker-Miller Affair], there were several humorous stories that came out of it. I can’t verify how true they were. But one guy had a peg leg, and he, as everybody tried to run and get away from the place, he had a – the ground was wet, it had been real soft outside. When he came out on the stoop up there, he didn’t wait to go down the steps, he just jumped off this 12-foot stoop, and his peg went in the ground. And they said he was going round and round trying to get loose. Somebody else jumped on the horse and started beating the horse and hadn’t even untied the horse! But when Dad told this, he told about a boy that got out of school and said he ran but didn’t anybody find him until the next morning. He went somewhere and hid. Again, I don’t know how truthful this is. [Tape stops and then resumes] Sensabaugh: Okay. It’s going. Patterson: Well sort of the set-up for this Wade-McCormick thing – [Ed] McCormick was a young man in his probably early twenties who lived here on the corner where Casey [Gwyn Campbell] lives now [2766 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Across from where Lib Ward used to live [2763 Brownsburg Turnpike]. And there were several stores – at least five stores [unintelligible] where Dick Barnes tore down when he renovated seemed to be sort of the center of town. And that’s where most of the action took place. But even that Mr. Love Wade, who was the father of Bud and Kite and Ott and all these other people [unintelligible] Mr. Love Wade enjoyed drinking a lot, and he had a good time when he drank, kicked up a lot of racket. But he was also – apparently made insulting remarks and things that go with drinking. Anyway, [Ed] McCormick, had apparently – the way my dad related it – McCormick apparently had said something. He and Mr. Wade had disagreed on something. Of course you’re talking about an old man against a young man. Sensabaugh: Was McCormick the old man? Patterson: McCormick was the young man. Wade was the old man. And so Wade – Mr. Wade said something McCormick didn’t like, and he hit him. And anyway, when the Wade boys found out about this, they immediately started, “Well, we’ll go to Brownsburg Saturday night and give McCormick a good beating.” And they did. They came to Brownsburg with that intent. And I don’t know just which ones were involved. It wasn’t Bud, for sure, because this happened in 1905, and I’m sure Bud was just a small child, and probably Kite, too. But Tom and John [Wade] were the only ones that I know that were involved, and then the [Arthur] Blackwell who was, so the story goes, was going with one of the Wade girls. But at least three of them came to Brownsburg with the intent of beating up on Ed McCormick. Ed was in the store, and so it was reported in the paper, the County News, that John Wade went in and they said he was drinking heavily, and tried to pick a fight, and tried to get Ed McCormick to fight in the store. And Ed wouldn’t fight. Tried to get him to go outside, and naturally he wasn’t going outside because he knew they were going to gang up on him. So anyway, he stayed in the store until it came time when the store would normally close. And they said the store owner even kept the store open longer than normal hoping that the Wades would give up and go home, but they didn’t. And finally he closed and, in the meantime, Ed McCormick’s father had found out the boy was up there and they were waiting to way-lay him. So he went up to come down with him. And some way or another, which was never explained, they got a hold of a gun. People, some people thought that the store owner gave McCormick the gun; at least they didn’t think that he came up there with the gun. But he left with the gun. Maybe his daddy brought him a gun. Some think that the daddy even had a gun, too. But as they came out of the store to head down home, which was just a block from the store, well, Tom Wade was somewhere in the area where he could see him whenever he came out of that door. And he was to signal for the [Arthur] Blackwell and John Wade that were further down the street between the store and his house. And they were going to catch him when he came down. But then Tom gave the whistle. Well, he came on down, this McCormick and his dad. And so they ran out through here, which is apparently right in front of our house [2744 Brownsburg Turnpike] because they had one of the witnesses in the trial was Mr. Clemmer who lived in Miss Pett’s old house [2741 Brownsburg Turnpike]. And they said it was about 30 feet below his house out in the middle of the road. And when they went out to grab the McCormick, well, he pulled his gun, and they said it was like two shots and killed them both. One of them didn’t die instantly. One of them died instantly and the other they said there was an old stable or something sitting right here where our house is sitting. Of course, they didn’t have ambulances, and they didn’t have a doctor on hand, and he laid there and died sometime during the night in this old stable. I’m sure someone stayed with him until he died. I’m not sure whether it was Blackwell or [John] Wade that died in the stable during the night. But McCormick, of course, was – he didn’t – he got to home, and he kept on going. He didn’t stop. And some say that he went on up Goose Creek and spent the night with an old colored guy that lived up there. And the next morning he went into town and gave himself up. Of course, that went to trial, and he was freed because the Wades, according to the law, they waylaid him on the way – on his way home. Out in the middle of the street. And that he was justified in protecting himself. That these people were drinking but what they wouldn’t kill him in the process. So they apparently considered that self-defense, and he wasn’t prosecuted. He left the country. I’m assuming that he never lived here after that, but his parents stayed on for a number of years, and they were very respectable people in the community. His father was Postmaster for a number of years. The Post Office was down there in the yard [2766 Brownsburg Turnpike]. The garage that’s sitting there? Dr. Hutcheson tore that down. I have a picture of my older sister standing in front of the Post Office. Sensabaugh: Well I wondered [unintelligible] because it was never really used as a garage. Did he? Patterson: Well, yeah, I don’t know whether Dr. [Richard G.] Hutcheson did. But it was used as a garage. And it was converted, I guess, the front -- they put doors on or something. I’m assuming it was the same building, because it was a real old building. And this picture shows, I think, that it had a front porch on it. So I’m just assuming that they just converted the building, took the porch off, put doors on, and converted it into a garage. When I first remember it here, there was a garage there with two big doors. But – Sensabaugh: So the McCormicks did use to live around here, a lot of them. Patterson: That family of McCormicks, yeah. They were very good friends of my mother and father. In fact the only vacation – the only time I ever remember my mother going away to spend a night was to visit the McCormicks when they moved to Pennsylvania. I was just a little guy at a time. But I remember they were close friends of my family. And they were very respected people. As were the Wades, of course. Of course the Wades – it’s remarkable that those – both of those murder stories, that the families were able to live on in the community without any [unintelligible] hereafter. Sensabaugh: Do you ever remember any Cultons [??] living around here? Patterson: Mr. John Culton [??] -- I just have a faint memory of him. He lived up here in the house where you turn up to go to the school [2693 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Jo Swisher’s remodeling it now. And I just remember the old man – he had a white beard. Tall, slender, good fellow. I think he had originated out at the McNutt place. But I don’t remember that. I remember talking about Mr. Culton out there. But he was a real old man. In fact, I have his account of the Civil War. He wasn’t old enough to be in the Civil War – well, I say he wasn’t old enough. But at least he wasn’t in the war himself. But somebody got him to write up an account of what he remembered about the Civil War. And I have a copy of that upstairs. It’s not a long thing. But some of his, as I say, just what he remembered. Sensabaugh: You talked about the Strains. Is it spelled S – T – R – A – I – N? Patterson: Um hmm. Sensabaugh: Okay. You don’t remember any Strange? Like S – T – R – A – N – G – E? Patterson: The Strains were very prominent people. They owned the place – the Slusser place, which included where your grandparents – that was bought off of the Strain place out there. The old Withrow house – part of the Beard place – came off of the Strain place out there. Down where the little white house is? That was called the Withrow place. And the old Withrow house burned. I was about 12 years old. I was out there. My brother was old enough to drive. I went along, but I sat up in the road. I was big enough to tell them where the commotion was. But anyway, the Withrow house and property that went with that (which is now Beard property) was originally part of the Strain property. And then the farm out here, of course – we know it more as the Clemmer Brown place [3191 Brownsburg Turnpike]. However, I remember Miss Eva and John Strain, neither one of them was married and they were there as elderly people and rented out the farm. Their father was Dr. Strain. He was there. Dad remembered him and made remarks about Dr. Strain. He was one of the doctors that, when this Walker thing – when Dr. Walker [unintelligible]. So the Strains are like Buchanan and several other names, that families [unintelligible] have become extinct in my memory. The Buchanans were all my age, but they were all girls. Sensabaugh: Doesn’t happen when it comes to family lines. I was wondering because – going back to the history. One of my great-great-great-grandmothers, Anna, married, and according to the records, a Strange. And I just wondered if you’d heard of any of them, or if maybe it was Strain and they just didn’t – like everything else, they spelled it cockeyed. Patterson: I just don’t remember running across that name connected with this community. Sensabaugh: So the Macks [??] were living here. Because one of the girls in the 1800’s – early teens – married a Colton. Or one of they guys. I’m not sure, I can’t remember. One of them married a Colton. Patterson: Anderson? I know very little about the Colton family. Sensabaugh: Who used to run the mill down here? At Dunlaps? I know when I was growing up, it was Wade. Patterson: Well, that [McClung’s Mill] is the oldest mill in Rockbridge County. Sensabaugh: I was reading that in that book you gave me. I didn’t know that. Patterson: Well, you read about it some of – all of the owners up through – see that came through, was in my family for two generations, I guess. And it – William Wardlaw was my great-granddaddy. No, my granddaddy. [Patterson later states that his grandfather was William Patterson, not William Wardlaw.] And his daddy was Samuel [Patterson] , and Samuel had run the mill. That would have been my great-granddaddy. He owned both of these mills at the same time. And when he died, then it passed on to my granddaddy, William Wardlaw [Patterson]. But he got rid of it then to the – it might have been a couple of owners in between. But I’m assuming that he sold it to McClungs, who were cousins. And they had – maybe they might have even had an interest in it. I don’t know. But my first – the first stories I’ve heard about the mill, most of them were when the McClungs owned it. It was in the McClung family for two generations. Finn and Finley McClung. Too old, so they passed it on down. But I remember them very well. They were first cousins of my daddy’s. They used to visit up at home. [unintelligible] down there. But then McClungs – Mr. [W.E.] Mays bought the thing way back. I don’t know who owned it. I remember when Mr. Mays came there. It was in the late ‘20’s when I was just a small child. He was there, I don’t know, eight or ten years and then he sold it to Mr. Charlie Wade, and his son Harold. Sensabaugh: Okay. That’s who was running it when I grew up. [End of side B] Patterson: I don’t remember [unintelligible] Sensabaugh: It just kind of listed that it was the oldest mill started by whoever. Patterson: This has a picture and has all of the owners and Hays was one of the first owners. And it went as Hays Mill. I even remember in my time people referring to it as Hays Mill. But most commonly it was referred to as McClung’s Mill. I don’t remember anybody ever calling it Patterson’s Mill. [Laugh] Sensabaugh: Well you say now Wardlaw who was here first was a lot kin to you. Since it was Wardlaw Patterson was your great grandfather. Patterson: Wait a minute. Cut that thing off. [Tape stops.] Patterson: I confused those names there. My grandfather’s name was William Patterson. I was confusing that with the Wardlaws. The reason was that the farmland down where the Andersons live [unintelligible] Sensabaugh: Well where did your grandfather come from before he came to this area? Patterson: My grandfather? Sensabaugh: Um hmm. Patterson: My grandfather was from here. Sensabaugh: Well, the original Patterson from here. Patterson: Oh, that comes up as another story. I don’t know if you’re interested in all this or not about how the Pattersons got here. Sensabaugh: Well, how the Pattersons got here is probably how a lot of the rest of us got here, too! Patterson: Well, according to some of the records – this part of it is a little bit, a little bit sketchy – but one account is that there were three brothers who came over from Ireland. And they – most of these people who moved into this part of the country were Scots who came through Ireland and then on here, which is how they came to be Scotch-Irish. But I think the Pattersons, according to some of the records, they were pure Irish. And even in Scotland, they were known as O’Pattersons. When they got here, they dropped the “O”, but how much truth is to that we don’t know because there are different accounts. But the three brothers makes a good story. But anyway, they were William, and Samuel, and John. And they settled, landed in Pennsylvania, and one of them started [??] and was hired to [??] Baltimore. Sensabaugh: Oh, okay. Patterson: One of them started the development in Baltimore which grew into quite a city and originally became Baltimore. And according to the records in Baltimore – now some of this came through Betsy Anderson – she lived up there and one area of Baltimore has Patterson name as very prominent. They had a Patterson Park, and a couple of Patterson schools. I didn’t know any of this until just recent years. But anyway, according to the things that have been handed down – I’m not sure which one, whether that was Samuel, or whichever one, but anyway, one of the brothers. And another one was instrumental in the development of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. And here the story didn’t follow him very long and says he became, went into banking and became wealthy and went [??]. [Laugh] The only Patterson I ever knew of to become wealthy! Anyway, we lost track of him anyway. When he became wealthy, he disappeared! [Laugh] And the one that came here and got involved with Ben Borden and bought these first – apparently he bought the first two tracts or whatever they did – assigned himself. And then he became an agent to Ben Borden to help to sell the rest of it. So I’m assuming that we’re descendants from that one. And it was Betsy Anderson who passed this on to me several years ago. They – Betsy lives in the house [Sleepy Hollow at 2645 Sterrett Road] where Rufus Patterson where his two sons, John and Stuart, grew up down there. And I remember them very well. They were in the generation with my dad. And Stuart was paralyzed back as a young man. And I’d always heard the story that he dived into a swimming pool – hole, swimming pool or swimming something and the water was too shallow and he dived in and broke his neck. And they didn’t have medical treatment then, at that time, he was paralyzed and was paralyzed for the rest of his life. As I say, I can remember him very well. But Betsy got a hold of records somewhere that John – that Stuart was visiting relatives in Baltimore when he broke his neck. And that sort of ties in with it. She knows more about that part than I do. But whether or not all that ties in – is facts or not. But I’ve got that kind of stuff documented, but whether it has much truth, because there’s also a different strand of – a different story about how the Pattersons got settled here. Pretty much the same, but it had variations to it. Sensabaugh: Yeah. Patterson: But I’m going to stick with that one because that one makes the best story! [Laugh] Sensabaugh: [Laugh] Sounds good to me. I’ve got to get going. [Tape ends.] Ed Patterson Index A Asbury United Methodist Church · 9, 27 B Barnes, Dick · 5 Bellevue · 30 Blackwell, Arthur · 31 Borthwick, Annabelle · 20 Brown, Samuel · 9 Brownsburg "William Penn" Hospital · 12 200th Anniversary · 13 Bank · 9 Barbershops · 27 Colored School · 9 Doctor's House · 9 First School · 16 Gisimer Mill · 17 Library · 9 Murder Capital · 8 Patterson Mill · 17 Post Office · 16, 33 Saloons · 11 Saturday Nights · 24 School Demolition in 1997 · 3 Stagecoach Line · 10 Still House · 19 Streetlights · 10 Undertaker · 26 Water Corporation · 9 Brownsburg Academy Stock Company · 8 Brownsburg School Athletics · 22 Dramatics · 22 Glee Club · 21 Buchanan Family · 35 C Civil War · 34 Colored School · 9 Land Donated by Patterson Family · 9 Culton, John · 34 Cunningham, Alice · 10 Cunningham, Helen · 10 D Depression · 24 F Farming Threshing · 24 Franklin, Charlie Barber · 27 Friends Lighthouse Mission Church · 11 H Hays Mill · 36 Heslep, Jack · 10 Hutcheson, Dr. Richard G. New Providence Minister · 33 I Irvine, Hope · 21 M Mann, Governor Brownsburg Childhood · 27 Mays, W. E. · 36 McClung, Finley · 36 McClung’s Mill · 18, 35 McCormick, Ed · 31 Miller, George · 30 Mills · 17, 35 Moneymaker, Betty Belle · 30 Moneymaker, Ross · 30 Moore, Mary · 9 Morris, Mamie · 11 P Patterson, John · 38 Pennsylvania Settler · 38 Patterson, Rufus · 38 Patterson, Samuel · 35 Pennsylvania Settler · 38 Patterson, Stuart · 38 Patterson, William Pennsylvania Settler · 38 Patterson, William L. · 35 S Strain, Eva · 34 Strain, John · 34 Supinger, Bob "Teddy" · 25 T Trimmer, Osie · 21 W Wade, Bud · 31 Barber · 27 Wade, Charlie · 36 Wade, Harold · 36 Wade, John · 31 Wade, Kite · 31 Wade, Love · 31 Wade, Ott · 31 Wade, Tom · 31 Wade-McCormick Tragedy in 1905 · 31 Walker, Zachariah · 20 Walker-Miller Affair · 30 Water Corporation · 9 Whitesell, John Layton · 26 Wilbourn Saddle · 18 World War I Black Veterans · 10