August 2006 Interview with Louise Wiseman Stuart By Isabelle Chewning [Tape 2] Stuart: But anyway, Brownsburg was an interesting place, it really was. Chewning: What do you think about the museum? Stuart: I think it’s marvelous, just marvelous, Isabelle! You know, of course, I went through all the thing of trying to raise money and everything for the Marshall Foundation. And I know that was a completely different thing. But it does take money. And it’s going to take money. Do you all have plans? Chewning: Well, we have a fundraising committee. Stuart: Okay. Chewning: I don’t know if you know Allen and Mary Rutherfoord Ferguson. They’re from Richmond, but their house was on the tour two years ago. They live out – it was the house that Chunk Neal built, I think. Stuart: Oh yeah, oh Lord yes! Yes, I remember that! Chewning: They’re our fundraising chairpeople, and they have lot of connections -- Stuart: Oh, connections, sure! Chewning: in Richmond. Stuart: Well now – Chewning: Their son was the opera singer who did the concert at New Providence last year. Stuart: Oh, yes! Golly, I loved that! That was just marvelous! And everybody loved those last songs! Do you remember that? Oh, gosh! They wouldn’t let him quit! Chewning: They ah – We have a fundraising goal of $225,000. We think it will take about $150,000 to get the building in shape. We have a lot of people who are kind of donating some time to work on the building. And then we’d like to raise another $75,000 to help start to acquire things, and you know, the pieces inside, and then to fund a little endowment. Stuart: Yes. Gosh, do you think that’s enough? Chewning: Ah, I don’t know. Stuart: Two hundred thousand dollars doesn’t go very far, does it? Chewning: No. Stuart: Well, do you plan to keep somebody there? Chewning: I don’t think it will be a full-time staff. Stuart: It will be a volunteer. Chewning: A volunteer docent basis, and maybe we’ll just be open on weekends. Stuart: Yeah. Chewning: We’re not that far along yet, but we’re getting ready to start putting together an Acquisitions Committee, and Tom Litzenburg from W&L with the Reeves Center is going to help us. Stuart: Oh, my goodness. Chewning: He’s going to help get us started. Stuart: Well, good! Where does he live? Chewning: He’s in Lexington. Stuart: Well, I didn’t think he lived out there. Chewning: No. Stuart: But he’s just interested. Chewning: He’s interested. Stuart: That’s marvelous! Chewning: And he’s going to help us sort of get focused on what we want to collect, and what our exhibits should look like. Stuart: Exactly! Well my gosh, you’ve really got the right people! Chewning: I think we do. I don’t know if you know Kathryn Mirabella. She and her husband live in Lexington now, but they’re building between Brownsburg and Bustleburg. Up there – do you know where that little spring is along the road? Stuart: Oh sure! Chewning They’re building up there above that. Stuart: Oh, I know I them! They live right behind my friend, Marty Gansz! Chewning Probably. Stuart: Exactly! I just didn’t recognize the name. I have met them. Chewning She was Assistant Curator at the Diplomatic Reception Rooms at the State Department. Stuart: Oh, my gosh! Chewning And she’s interested in doing a lot of work. She’s actually gotten our oral history project jump-started. She got us some training in oral history. Stuart: That’s marvelous, for goodness sake! Chewning But we need to call on you at some point! You have – Stuart: Oh, I would love to help Chewning You have so much experience – Stuart: I really have. But anyway. I would love to do it, ah, time element. You know I let myself be elected Elder in our church. Chewning Um hm. That’s a big job. Stuart: And I didn’t realize how much – You know, Boyd had always done it, and he just was out and gone, and I didn’t pay any attention. But this was the third time that they’ve asked me, and finally I – cause I go all the time, not that I’m a religious soul, but you know, I just go. And ah, so this time I said now, you know, it’s now or never. I’m 79, how long am I going to be around? Chewning A long time! Stuart: Well, I hope so. But I just knew – so I said “okay, I’ll do it.” So that just takes a lot of my time. So I don’t know, but anyway, I’m interested in it, I surely am. And I just am pleased to death! But you all have the right people for it. Chewning We’re so lucky! Stuart: Absolutely! Chewning We have on the Museum Steering Committee we have Dick Barnes as the Chair. Stuart: And he is a crackerjack! He knows this stuff! And he’s raised money! Good gosh. Chewning And then the Fergusons are – they’re big money raisers in Richmond. Stuart: Well, of course! And they’ve got money! Anybody that could take that house, and turn it into what they did! Chewning And ah, Frank Parsons – Stuart: Of course, I know Frank, for Lord’s sake! Chewning And you probably know Marsha Jones. Stuart: Marsha, I know Marsha, absolutely. Chewning And Marie Patterson – Marie Coleman is on the committee as sort of the educational person. To make sure that we have educational programs. Stuart: Right. Chewning So I think we have a really nice, well-rounded committee. Stuart: I just think – well you do. You’re just as lucky as you can be that all these people decided, you know, to bring your expertise! And look at you and your husband! Young and enthusiastic for Heaven’s sake! I just think it’s marvelous that you’re doing it. I really do. Because it’s unusual that a place like Brownsburg did not get all chopped up. Like Fairfield. It’s just a blessing it’s there. And it just – it just tickles me to death. You know, I was going to tell it to Catharine, that Bosworth house – I mean that house used to have a front porch all the way across [2703 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Now she says, “Well, Lou, how did they do that with the sidewalk?” And I said “Well, the sidewalk went on the other side of it.” Because that had a porch. And just imagine how pretty that would be. I don’t know whether Catharine will ever – Chewning I love driving by her house. She has the best geranium in the window of her house – that geranium is gorgeous. Stuart: Well, I’m glad. You know, my geraniums – I buy six of them every year. Every year they have been so pretty. This year, I threw four of them away! So I don’t know what happened! I went to Shaner’s like I always do, and I’ve got one in bloom out there -- you’ll see when you go back out! But she keeps hers inside? Chewning She has a big one inside. She says “I’m not a houseplant person, but my mother gave it to me, and it’s doing well in that window, so I’m just leaving there. Stuart: Just leaving it there. I’ll be darned. Well, I remember the Bosworth’s had vines around that, and they had a swing in the back of the porch, about where that window is. And you, you stepped down to the sidewalk. Chewning Who lived where Jo Heath lives now [2693 Brownsburg Turnpike]? Stuart: Well, I remember one time that Osie Supinger and Mattie Wade bought it, and nobody lived in it for a while. And the Wades that I’m talking about – Margaret – Tootsie – she and her family lived in it. I think they rented it from Mattie and Osie. And then Mattie – I believe – came up there and lived all the time until she died, I think. See, I was gone by that time. And I don’t remember back before Mattie and Osie buying it and the Wades went in there. I was in there a lot when the Wades were in there. But I don’t remember anything about how it sat. But you know, the school teacher lived in there, too. I went down there to their auction sale – wonder what the heck his name was. He was the principal. Chewning After Miss Trimmer? Stuart: Oh yeah, long time after. Yeah, good Heavens. Ah, we were living up here – long time after that. And I don’t remember his name. But he and his wife lived in that house before ah – what’s her name – Heath? Before they bought it. And then it was about – it was in really bad shape. And ah, gosh, they did a beautiful job of re-doing it. Chewning Uh huh. It looks really pretty on the outside. Stuart: Yeah. But I’m not sure but what Miss Trimmer didn’t live in that house at one time. I really am not sure. Seems to me that I can remember her coming out on the upstairs back porch. I don’t know about that. Can’t really remember. Mollie Sue and Fred lived in that house right across the street. Chewning Oh, the one that – Stuart: The Whipples – Dorothy Whipple’s always owned it. Chewning Oh, the big square white house [2685 Brownsburg Turnpike]? Stuart: The big square house, uh huh. And Mollie Sue and Fred lived in that a long time. And then – Chewning While his parents were still alive and living in the – Stuart: Yeah, uh hm. And Claudia and D.W. – Chewning Douglas. Stuart: Douglas. Douglas. Claudia and Douglas. Their children were born there. I keep telling Virginia who lives down below me now that I remember when her mother – we were living in Aunt Hassie’s house right across the street – her mother would go down the street, she’d carry one kid on each hip! [Laugh] Chewning And Mrs. Whipple was little. Stuart: Oh, yes, a tiny little person. And she had these two curly-headed little kids. But then Mollie Sue and Fred – I guess Mollie Sue and Fred moved down to the Whipple’s big house when Mrs. Whipple died. She – Mollie Sue – didn’t teach me, but she was a good teacher – she came over from Goshen to teach. Chewning She was my second grade teacher. Stuart: Was she your second grade teacher? Chewning She was one of my favorite teachers ever! Stuart: Oh, of course! Well she was Marjorie Ann’s – one of her favorite teachers. Matter of fact, she took – it was “Pookie”, “Doodie”, and “Tootsie”. [Laugh] They were all in her class, and she took them all over to Goshen to spend the weekend with her. Pookie, Doodie, and Tootsie! I never have been able to call Marjorie Ann “Pookie!” I just can’t do it! [Laugh] And I call her Marjorie Ann, but most everybody else calls her Pookie. [Laugh] Chewning [Laugh] Stuart: I think that’s a horrible name! But Miss Trimmer was the principal the whole time I went to school. She retired the year we graduated – in 1944. And went back down to ah – what’s the name of that little place right outside of Richmond? Sandstone! But anyway, her brother lived down there. We always heard a lot about her brother, and that’s where she went to spend the summers. And so when she retired that’s where she went. And I talked with Jeff Swisher, who – does that name mean anything to you? Chewning No Stuart: Anyway, they lived over there on the creek – on Walker’s Creek. He was ahead of me in school, but anyway, I talked with him not long ago. He lives in Richmond. And he said he saw her – Miss Trimmer’s – death in the newspaper. And he said, “I was going to her funeral.” He was going by himself. And he got out there on the road someplace, and it was pouring down rain. And he didn’t really know exactly where to go. And he said, “I said to myself: ‘nobody will know me, and nobody will care.’” And so he turned around and went back home. So that’s the only way that I know that she died. But there was another strange event with Miss Trimmer. I took Marilyn Price – Marilyn’s husband is kin to all the Prices who were missionaries and so forth around here – to China and so forth. Anyway, but they had lived in California, and they came back here. And Dr. Price was the doctor at the Health Department for the county here. They lived out there on Route 11 across from where Woody’s place is. Anyway, his wife, Marilyn, had cancer, and we volunteered to take her back and forth to Roanoke to take treatments. And I was taking her down to Roanoke one day, and – this has been since I retired, because I wouldn’t have been doing it before. Anyway, we were coming out on I-581 after her treatment, and we were just yakking and talking and I said something about Miss Trimmer. And I said, “I’m sure you’ve heard about Miss Trimmer because of all the years you’ve been here, you certainly -- ” She said, “Lou, I not only have heard about Miss Trimmer, I know Miss Trimmer!” I said, “You what?” I mean, Marilyn is a little bit older than I am, but not much. And she said, “Yes, indeed.” She said, “I was -- ” This was – well, see, Miss Trimmer left school in 1944. Left Brownsburg. And she said, “I was over at the University of Virginia.” She was from upstate New York. She’d come down to the University of Virginia to go to college. And she was taking some special courses, or something. And she got to know this lady whose name was Osie Trimmer. And she said she had sort of orangy hair, and she wore it back. Well, that could be nobody else! And she said, “She was a best friend of mine.” And she said, “I was dating another guy who was going to be a lawyer, and I was dating my husband, Frank.” She dated both of them. She just couldn’t decide which one of them she was going to marry! [Laugh] And she said, “I talked to Osie about it, and she came out, ‘There’s no question in my mind, you’re going to marry Dr. Price.’” Chewning [Laugh] Stuart: “You’re going to marry him!” And she said, “I did!” Now, can you believe that? I mean, what are the chances? [Laugh] I said, “Marilyn, I’m sure you’re telling the truth, but I am going to run this car off the road!” [Laugh] Chewning [Laugh} Stuart: So apparently, she had gone down there to live. Well, she wasn’t the kind that could sit – you know – on her butt! And she came back, Marilyn said, this lady came back to the University of Virginia, and renewed her certificate. And Marilyn just happened to meet her, and there she was. Isn’t that unbelievable? I mean, these things just happen all the time! [Laugh] I don’t know why I remember all this stuff. But there it was. I could not believe it when Marilyn told me that. Chewning That’s amazing. Stuart: So I’ll bet you she taught school until she died. Because she was so used to being in charge. I mean, she couldn’t go and sit down. She’s like me. I mean I had to keep – I learned to play golf, I got a computer, you know, I’ve got to do things! Chewning Right. Yep. Yep. Stuart: None of them I do well, but I can’t help it, I just can’t sit still. So I can understand why she would do that. And Marilyn – she’s a cute little lady, she still is. I hope you meet Marilyn, and I’m sure you will. Get all this thing going, because she’s interested in Brownsburg, and so forth. But ah, she’s the one, she used to – she said she used to have all sorts of allergies when she was a kid. And she couldn’t do things like play sports and all that because of these allergies – and so she started doing physical exercises and that sort of stuff and did them all of her life. And when the physical stuff started coming around, she started doing that at our church. And just about every woman who’s ever been through the Presbyterian Church has taken Marilyn’s exercise classes. Chewning Oh. Stuart: It’s just unbelievable. And Dr. Price retired a few years ago. And I took them, twice a week. You had to be there at eight o’clock. And she’s like Miss Trimmer, man, she didn’t mean eight-thirty! She meant eight! [Laugh] You’d be there at eight, and you’d get your stuff down, and your clothes on, and you were ready to go at eight-thirty! And it was just marvelous, she was great at it. She did it every Tuesday and Friday. So when he retired, he asked her to retire, too, because he said, you know they have five kids all over, and he wanted her to be free to go and so forth. So she did. But in the meantime, she made us a tape, and we do the tape. And for some reason, guess who picked it up. See, I can’t keep my mouth shut, Isabelle! [Laugh] Chewning You haven’t learned to sit on your hands? Stuart: Anyway, so we go every Tuesday. And she says she does them at home. When she’s there she does them on Tuesday and does the same thing. And one time we lost our tape, and she did another one for us. Chewning That’s how you’re staying young! S; Well, it really does, it really helps. Now this summer, we’re not – we didn’t do it July and August because they had to do the air conditioning up there, and that was expensive. And then Doug, bless his heart. He’s the sexton at our church, and he is the – you know Doug Stevenson? He lives down there, you know the alley that comes – goes down where Frances and Ruth [Craney] lived – in Brownsburg [2650 Brownsburg Turnpike]? Chewning Oh, right. Stuart: Down there. He lives down there with his mother in a house trailer or something. Well, I think Isabel Sites is his aunt. Chewning So he – Stuart: He’s the sexton of our church. He’s marvelous! He’s the greatest thing! And he goes in and turns the air conditioning on, and puts our chairs in every Tuesday and Friday. And he’s just great. And after the fire we couldn’t have done it without Doug, and our young minister. The fact that we had a young minister. Ah, but anyway, Doug is just great. His mother married Isabel’s brother, and he kind of was a ne’er do well. But she – his mother – is just really a marvelous person – she worked for Randall and his wife. Chewning I don’t know who that is. Stuart: So we stopped having classes because we weren’t having but four or five, and it wasn’t – because people go away in the summer it wasn’t worth it. But that’s the first time, because we’ve always had it right on through the summer and everything. And it really does help, it makes you feel better. Chewning That’s great, you’re doing it twice a week. Stuart: Yes, twice a week, and it just – it’s real aerobics. I mean, because she says that’s the only thing that’s kept her alive because she had so many allergies and that kind of stuff. But anyway, it was a great thing. Ah, and, and it’s amazing, a lot of these ladies who are 85, now 90, say, “Well, gosh, I took Marilyn’s exercise class.” So it – Marilyn – I mean Mary Brady – she must be 90. Who knows. She took it! She took it! All these ladies did. Of course, I was working, and I didn’t even have time to think about it, but boy, the minute I retired, I got in it. Chewning Mary Brady does flowers at the Jackson House once a week. Stuart: Yeah, yeah, I know. She really is something, and in the summertime, she lives out there in that great old big house all by herself. I wouldn’t live out there if she’d give it to me! Ooh, it’s too big! By herself! I mean, this house is big for me. Imagine, living in it. It’s old – of course they did a beautiful job of re-doing it. But she does come in now and live in her house here in the summer – I mean in the winter. So she doesn’t have to move snow. But her daughter says – her daughter lives in California now – and she says she’s coming back and going to live out there someday. Chewning I met her at the Jackson House one day this summer. She and her daughter were here going to horse camp at the Horse Center. Stuart: Yeah, exactly, right. Right. I’ll show you a picture in here that she did. I think that’s the last time I saw her, too, and the daughter’s as big as she is. Chewning I didn’t see the daughter. Stuart: You didn’t see the daughter? Yeah, the daughter was with her at church. But anyway, it’s been an interesting ride. It really has! [Laugh] It really has. And I get myself in some of the darndest, darndest things. But I keep moving! Chewning Good for you! Stuart: Gotta keep moving, I really do! Chewning That’s the secret, I think. Stuart: Yeah, and I, you know, I think always going to New Providence. That was marvelous for a kid like me. I mean, I loved going to Massanetta. I went to Massanetta every year on up until I went to the Pioneers and then I went to whatever the next one was. I guess I was about ready to graduate from high school. And my sister went one time. Chewning She didn’t want to go back? Stuart: No sir! She didn’t like that thing. And Mildred Carwell went one year, and you know, Mildred was a little bit older than I was. I mean, I didn’t think Mildred would have any problem, but she was the most homesick thing you ever saw. She never would go back. But I loved Massanetta! I had the best time every year. And that was all New Providence, I’d have never gone otherwise. And then I got to know all the Timber Ridge people, because they stayed in the same – we stayed in their cabin. The church was always important – and Mother and Dad went all the time, you know. And it was always just an annex of our life. I mean, the Chrysanthemum Show! I mean, my gosh, I’m sure you’ve heard your parents – well, maybe not your parents, but Mary and Mc talk about the Chrysanthemum Show. We had a Chrysanthemum Show that was a show! And all of us kids raised chrysanthemums, and then took them out there. And I remember one Chrysanthemum Show that we had was unusual. I don’t know who – I guess Dr. Hanna was still there. And ah, Mary Lotts – I don’t know if you remember her, but anyway, she was another character. She sewed all the time. And she took one of our Sunday School rooms upstairs that has those little catechism rooms. Chewning Um hmm. Stuart: And made little shows. Put a thing in, and made little shows. And the one that sticks in my mind was because my sister had a Shirley Temple doll that was about that big. And they asked her if they could use her doll for the bride. And they did a bride and groom, and Mary made all of the clothes for the bride. Just gorgeous! The woman could sew like you wouldn’t believe! And made – and used somebody’s doll and made a tuxedo for him. It was so pretty that it sticks in my mind. And then they had flowers all around that. And they did little windows in all that Sunday School room. The one at the top of the top floor. And all of us kids used to start our chrysanthemums, and then we would have them all to bring out there in the fall to the Chrysanthemum Show. And then we all had to recite our catechisms. The Child’s Catechism and the Shorter. And by that time, we were ready to help somebody teach Sunday School or sing in the choir. And Randall told me that he remembered New Providence at the time – his mother – you know who I’m talking about [Sallie D. Wade]? Chewning Um hmm. She taught me piano. Stuart: Okay. All right. Of course, okay. Well, his mother came over here from someplace else, Charlottesville or somewhere to teach school in Brownsburg, and met his father. And that’s when they bought this home place out there on Goose Creek. And now what was I beginning to tell you, for Lord’s sake? Hmm. Chewning You were talking about the choir. Stuart: Oh, yes, the church, of course! All right. Then, when Mrs. Wade – see Mrs. Wade was a big musician. And Mr. Wade had a gorgeous singing voice, apparently, I don’t remember him. Randall’s father. And they had special people who could come and sing in the choir. You had to be – [laugh] You had to have special friends. Chewning Oh, you mean you had to audition for the choir back then?? [Laugh] Stuart: Yeah. At New Providence, you couldn’t just come and decide that you wanted to participate. You couldn’t do that. I mean, I didn’t know any of that until Randall told me, and Randall was ten years older than I was. And I’m sure he got all this from his mother. You know, just the hoi peloi couldn’t come and sing! [Laugh] And I just couldn’t believe that, but apparently it was true. Chewning Wow. Stuart: It really was. But by the time I came along, see, everybody was welcome. Elsie Wade used to play the organ. Then she went off and married somebody. But she wasn’t married at that time. And she and ah – oh, gosh – Miss Carrie – Miss Carrie Lucas who lived down in Newport, the two of them went with us to Massanetta all the time, and they were our chaperones. And then for some reason, I got in the choir, and I don’t know, maybe Mc [Sterrett] got in the choir. Mc was working on the farm, I don’t imagine he went to Massanetta. Chewning I don’t think I’ve ever heard him talk about it. Stuart: I bet he – he would’ve talked about it. Richard – the Beards went all the time and they were on the farm. But all three [Richard, Donald, and Kenneth] of them went. But anyway, I don’t remember Mc, so maybe – he probably didn’t go. But anyway, but then, you know, they sort of let the bar down. And I remember they let some people in. They got in the choir. Monotone! I never in my life heard anybody else who was a true monotone. [Laugh] I couldn’t, I just – that was just beyond me. But anyway, also, the other was beyond me, too. I mean, I never felt any of that in New Providence, you know. But I’m sure it had been there. It had been there over the years. And of course, you know that the Black people sat up on the balcony. But that’s where they wanted to sit, you know. They didn’t have any desire to sit any place else. But they felt they were a member of New Providence, too. And talking about Dad and the bus. We didn’t at that time – I guess they had sold the car in order to buy the bus. Anyway, we – Dad, I guess arranged with the church – he must have gotten paid, or he wouldn’t have done it just for free. But he drove that bus on out towards your house [2249 Sterrett Road] and on up by Bud Martin’s [146 McClure Boulevard] and on back the way we used to run the farm [Davis Road], and back down Goose Creek, all the way down Goose Creek every Sunday. Chewning Oh, to pick up people to go to church? Stuart: Yeah, and all of those Shulls. Do you remember the Shulls? Richard still auctioneers. Richard was a grandchild, but he lived there. And Mr. and Mrs. Shull, the older people, they all came out. I remember them all coming out and getting on the bus and going to church. And he picked up a full load. Now, like I said, we never talked about money at home because there was never any! But apparently they paid him – he couldn’t have done it, I’m sure, without being paid. But I remember even Mr. Houston. He had to walk, gosh, about a quarter of a mile up that road. He was an older man, and he had a farm out there, a beautiful big house, and he walked up there and met us. Met that bus and went to New Providence every Sunday. We took a lot of people, and then when they had -- what did they call evangelical meetings? Chewning Oh, revival meetings? Stuart: Revival meetings. When they had those, Dad took the bus. And then he did it to Bible School. So you see, we just spent a lot of time as sort of – now, Marjorie Ann and them never went to church. I don’t want to say why. But anyway, most everybody else did. Anyway, it was a big part of our lives, and because Mother and Dad were into it. And Dad was always an Elder or Deacon or something. And of course, they didn’t allow women to do it at that time. You had to be in church and keep your mouth shut! [Laugh] So anyway, we were busy all the time. We really were. And gosh, some of the ministers we’d get were amazing. I told somebody down at our church the other day, I just couldn’t believe it. Here we were, backwoods Presbyterians, but we always had Doctors. Preachers with DD, or PhD – not PhD, but whatever it is in their name. I wrote them down, the ones that I knew. Dr. C. Morton Hanna. And then of course, they had a bunch of children, like four. And Edwin Bell was in my class at school, so I got to know him – that was the reason I knew the Hannas. And the Walthals came, and they were young, real young, and had a couple of young children. And then when the war came along, he went into the military. But he had a DD. And then Dr. White came. And of course, Dick was in my class and graduated with us. When the class of 1944 celebrated our fiftieth anniversary in 2004, Dick came back. It was, of course, after Boyd’s death, and that made it so hard for me because I knew he would have had a great time. However, I was the President of the class – so I soldiered on. Anyway, Dick came. First time any of us had seen Dick since we graduated. But anyway, he said that he came from a bigger school where people just did as they wanted to. Well, he came to Brownsburg, and he said, “You all were still marching into school with a drum! I couldn’t believe you had this drum that I had to march to!” [Laugh] And he was exactly right, we did! Miss Trimmer had us marching in to that drum! And anyway, Dr. Hutcheson, and you remember Dr. [Richard G.] Hutcheson. Chewning Uh hmm. Stuart: His children, well, Nancy was the youngest, she was younger than I am. The boys were gone. But I did get to know Dick Hutcheson who preached at the Presbyterian Church in Buena Vista, so I got to know them after, you know, we came up here. So anyway, the Hutchesons were the last that I knew out there. But I did get to meet that young man that everybody was crazy about. And I think he left and went to Ohio. Chewning Oh, John Lewis? Stuart: John Lewis, yes. I got to meet him, and I liked him and his wife. They used to have lunch in here – this was after I retired at one of the restaurants. Chewning She was a lawyer and worked in town. Stuart: Exactly, she was. And she helped draw up Randall’s will. And I get accused so often of going down and telling him what to do. I didn’t even know he was doing it. I mean, and, but you know, it’s like that Senator that we sent up to Washington one time and he got voted the dumbest Senator in the Senate. And what do you say after that? I mean, if somebody thought I told him what to do, I mean how would I contradict that, so I just tried to drop it. I didn’t even know that. But I had met John’s wife, but not down there. But he always came to the luncheons, or dinners or whatever they called it. And so I really enjoyed that. Of course I went with Randall, that’s why I was there. Chewning Oh, it was when the “High Nooners” met there? Stuart: Or whatever they called themselves. That’s exactly what it was, and I went with them. And I really enjoyed him. One time we were sitting out there just talking and yakking, and he was talking about the fees that he charged and so forth. And I just said [laugh] “What do you charge to marry somebody?” And oh gosh [laugh] I mean the whole place went up! And it didn’t even enter – Chewning [Laugh] Stuart: Thinking about it for gosh sakes! I was not going to marry. Well – is it on? Chewning It’s on. [Turns tape off] [Turns tape on] We were talking about Randall Wade. Stuart: Exactly. I was talking to Ed one day. It was probably when I took stuff that I gave him from Dad’s office down there. And he said, “You know, I think you really ought to put some kind of a plaque or something in the cemetery because as far – I get so many people coming and asking me if I know where somebody’s buried and so forth.” And he said, “It will be just like they never lived.” Because both of them were cremated, you see. And I thought that was real thoughtful of Ed, I really did. Because it just hadn’t entered my mind. And I said, “Well, of course I’ll do it.” Because when you’re in the military – I had done this for Boyd – you can get a plaque-thing from the military for free. It doesn’t cost you anything. You just fill this form out. And with Boyd, it only took about a month, and that thing came in, and then I had Hamric’s make one for me as near to that, and so both of them are in the cemetery. And Ed said, “Well, you know how to do it, how about your doing it?” And he said, “We’ll put it on Mrs. Wade’s lot, there’s a lot of room left, and we’ll put it on there and everybody will know.” So that is exactly what I did. But, it took over a year for it to come. So many World War II guys were dying, you see. And it took over a year to get it. And I had said, “Well, we’ll just have a little ceremony in the graveyard.” But after a year, it just seemed to me like too much time had passed since his death. I didn’t want to do it. So I just had Charlie take it out there, and it’s on the Wade’s lot. And it’s his birth – his and his wife’s birthday and when they died, and when they were married and so forth. I really thank Ed. Chewning That was a good thing to do. Stuart: Yes, I thanked Ed real often for that because that was a thoughtful thing. I was just too busy I suppose to think of it – I don’t know what I was doing, but I’m sure it was terribly important! [Laugh] Chewning [Laugh] Stuart: And it just didn’t [laugh] even enter my mind. But that’s exactly right. Nobody would have ever known that the two of them lived. They didn’t have any children, and both of them were cremated. But anyway, I’m real proud of that. I was out there at the cemetery last Saturday. Jimbo [Stuart’s son] married Nancy Hall from across – from Buckingham County. And her father and all of them had been over in Buckingham forever. He recently found a whole thing that had been written by one of his aunts way back there some place. And he found out that he had some relatives buried in New Providence church – in New Providence cemetery. And he found out some of his relatives who lived in Buckingham came over here where the Moneymakers live – where the Browns had established a school, Bellevue. They came over here to go to school – at that school. Anyway, we took the cemetery book that those girls did and found where it was. And Nancy’s father and a friend of his, and Nancy had been over here before, and we had found it. But we took the book and went out there again, and we said, “Well, how in the world did we find that thing?” And finally we did, and we found it. It said it was Row 40, but I said, “It’s not marked!” But we must have counted them off before. Chewning It’s hard, yeah. We need to get some kind of row markers out there. Stuart: Row markers. That’s what we need. But apparently Tom, Nancy’s father, had sense enough to count it from the bottom. And we knew it was back in the old cemetery along there, and we found it. We found it. We found it both times. So anyway, that’s interesting. And like Ed said, you know, somebody might come along looking for the Wades – well, where’s Randall? Of course, John [Wade], I guess, is buried up in Northern Virginia someplace, and there were just two of them. I’m so pleased, and I told Ed every time I saw him after that that I was so glad he thought of that. So that was done. He said, “Look, I’ve got the idea, but you do the work!” [Laugh] I said, I believe this is where I came in! Seems to be my forte, I do the work! Chewning That’s a good way to be. Stuart: Well, you know, I just like doing things. I do. Randall left instructions in his will that his body was to be cremated and the ashes taken to the beach on the Chesapeake Bay. This we did. I invited a group to go with me, including Deb Klein who was the interim minister at his church – New Providence – and my minister’s wife. Deb [Klein] was just marvelous, she really was. And she got the scripture and read it, and I put the ashes out, and everybody had flowers and things and so forth, put it out on the water. The guys on the pier were fine with it. They see people doing it every day. And so, it was unbelievable. He said that that’s where they used to fish, off of that pier. They lived down there for so long, you know, and they fished off of that pier. And that was just important, and he said even back when he was still in the Navy, his wife would go down there and fish, and she would see his ship coming up the Bay. And then she would be home by the time he would come in. You know, it’s just unbelievable. But gosh, he went in the Navy in ’36. He graduated from high school in 1936. And was in – and I just wish that there had been somebody doing this before he died. You see, he went all through the war. [End of Tape 2, Side A] [Interviewer’s note: I did not notice that we had reached the end of the tape. When I realized it had run out, I turned it over. Stuart was recalling going to Business School in Lynchburg. She had planned to go to Charlottesville to nursing school, but had been recruited for business school in Lynchburg, and when the tape picks up, she is talking about a man who had come to drive her to school.] Stuart: Mother was right there. And Dad. I got right in the car with that man, went back to Lynchburg. They lived out near Randolph Macon Women’s College. They had a house near Rivermont Avenue, and I stayed with them until a room came available where Ann was living. And I helped Mrs. Miller dust and do all those great things. [Laugh] And then, I went back and lived where Ann was living then. See we didn’t have Typing at Brownsburg. I didn’t even know what a typewriter looked like. And I was fascinated, I liked typing – and shorthand, I loved shorthand. They had some really good teachers over there. And I got to like all the girls who were living with us. I stayed until I graduated. And then I – you don’t remember Anna Margaret Powell, I’m sure, but she and her parents lived out at Wade’s Mill. They lived where Jimmy and Blair live now [73 Kennedy – Wade’s Mill Loop]. Mr. Powell worked for Mr. Wade all the time. Anna Margaret had graduated with my brother a year ahead of me in school, and she and I were great buds. We dated boys together and stuff. She couldn’t decide what she was going to do, so she was working down at one of those plants in Waynesboro. I’ve forgotten which one. I called her, and told her about this fun that I was having over there, and she said, “Well you know, I think that would be great fun!” So she came over there, she got there about like I did! [Laugh] And then in the meantime, Winston [Wade] came back from the Service. Mr. Wade was going to retire from the mill, and Winston, I guess had married Jane, and they were going to live in the big house, and I guess the Wades then went to Raphine and bought that gorgeous house. Okay. But anyway, and Winston wanted Mr. Powell, of course, to keep on working because he worked for his daddy forever. Mr. Powell said, “No. I will not work for anybody who’s younger than I am.” And he meant it – he was serious. He would not. So he went over to Craigsville. He found people who owned a flour mill and there was a house that they lived in close to the mill. I think it was the Ramsey’s Mill. And they made flour, just like the Wades. So he and Mrs. Powell moved over to Craigsville while Anna Margaret was in Lynchburg. And she was an only child. She just didn’t want to go to Craigsville, of course she didn’t. And she’d come home – when we came home for the weekend, she always came to my house. I mean, she was not going to Craigsville. She did not like Craigsville at all. She wasn’t going. Well, she didn’t like shorthand, so she took the bookkeeping part of it. And that was her forté. So – and she really excelled, she sailed through that. And anyway – she was looking at staying in Lynchburg. And she was going to work for one of the car companies. She already had this job. But somehow, she began to think a little more of that, because all of the people she knew were going to leave. And she just would be left over there, and she didn’t know about working in that car place where they sold cars, and so forth. So she thought maybe she ought to go home and kind of see if she liked Craigsville. [Laugh] So she loved Craigsville, and married Walter Ramsey whose family owned a large farm near Craigsville for generations. She did work for a car place over there, 35 or 40 years. And then Mr. Powell died, and Mrs. Powell moved from the mill down to a little place in Craigsville. Walter died, but Anna Margaret and her son and her son’s wife are all still living in on the farm in Marvel Valley. [Laugh] She loved Craigsville, and got to know everybody, and I used to visit her all the time. We used to ride bicycles before I got married, and all that kind of stuff. But Anna Margaret is still over there, and I’m going to see her this summer if it kills me. She came when Boyd died, and she came to the party when I retired, and she came to Patty’s wedding [Stuart’s daughter]. But I never seem – for some reason I never seem to get over there. But ah – Chewning You’d better hurry up if you’re going to get there this summer! This summer’s almost over! Stuart: I know it! [Laugh] Exactly! It is fall! And I’d planned to go in early spring when it would be pretty in Goshen Pass. And I was going to take a couple of girls who didn’t know anything about Goshen Pass. I never got there! Chewning I know. I have good intentions, too. Stuart: So do I! I just have all these things I want to do, and I just am going to do it! But anyway, that’s the way I got over there [to Lynchburg], and Boyd Stuart wouldn’t let me alone! [Laugh] Chewning [Laugh] Stuart: He said, “Lou, you don’t have to go to Charlottesville and become a nurse. Marry me, and we’ll be fine.” I still wanted to go! But I gave it up. So – [laugh] here I am! [Laugh] Oh, Lord, I think it was all for the best, though. Chewning Uh hm. Stuart: I don’t know. But sometimes, when Mother was sick for so long, my sister said “See! See! Why didn’t you go over there, then you’d have known what to do!” [Laugh] But anyway. Chewning It’s funny how things work out. Stuart: It is. It’s amazing. You just – you know, and like I have said so often, the silly little decisions that you make. I mean like getting in that car with that man! [Laugh] Changed my life completely! [Laugh] Oh Lord, didn’t even give it a second thought! I just knew I was going somewhere, it didn’t matter where! [Laugh] But you know, things were so different then, and you know you didn’t have to sweat getting in anywhere. I mean, I did have Latin. Now Blair Terrell told me – Blair Wade – that that’s the reason she went down to Portsmouth [to nursing school] because she didn’t take Latin in high school. And you had to have Latin in order to go to nurse’s training. And Portsmouth was one place you didn’t have to, and that’s why she went down there and went in training. Chewning Oh. Stuart: But see, I had my Latin. I had three years of Latin Miss Trimmer taught. That’s another thing she did – she taught Latin! Three years of Latin, and we read Caesar. I mean to tell you – in Latin! At this little bumpkin high school over here! Chewning She must have been amazing. Stuart: She was. It was unbelievable. It really was. Now, the only person I ever heard anybody say anything about her was Jimmy Wade. He said, “Lou, you know I know all those things are right, and she was marvelous and all that.” But he said, “You know there were so many people – kids who quit school because she demanded so much, and they couldn’t get it.” And she had no patience with anybody who couldn’t get it. And Jimmy’s right. I know people who did that. The people who needed it most were the people who quit. But she was demanding – she really was! If you wanted to learn – you learned. There were no two ways about it. If you decided to take Latin, you were going to speak Latin. [Laugh] She was truly a Renaissance lady. Chewning [Laugh] Stuart: Oh Lord! She was something! She really was. Yep, we had three years of Latin. Chewning Oh, my goodness. Stuart: Yeah. And see, I was much more interested in Latin than I was math. I didn’t care a thing about math; it didn’t interest me at all. But Mrs. Rosenell Patterson was a marvelous math teacher. Boyd said he knew as much as any of those college guys. I mean – Chewning Brownsburg has a sort of a tradition of good education. Stuart: Absolutely! Absolutely! There’s just no question about it. And of course, that one teacher – I don’t know if Mc had her I’m sure he remembers her – Miss Halterman. Have you ever heard him talk about Miss Halterman? Chewning No. Stuart: I never had her, but she taught Boyd something like – some kind of science. When they cut up frogs, and that kind of stuff. Chewning Biology? When you dissect frogs? Stuart: Biology. Yeah. Biology. And Marjorie Ann [Whitesell] who was three or four years behind had her for Biology. Both of them took Biology, see that doesn’t interest me because I wouldn’t have done that for anything. Chewning But you wanted to be a nurse! Stuart: [Laugh] I wanted to be a nurse! Oh Lord! Anyway. That’s right! Why did they want you to have Latin instead of Biology? Oh, gosh! Well anyway, they were both in Miss Halterman’s class. Not at the same time, but at different times. And we used – after we were all married, we used to flock around together. All kinds – I mean, we took trips to Nova Scotia and every place. Anyway, you haven’t lived until you’ve heard Boyd and Marjorie Ann talk about Miss Halterman! [Laugh] I mean, that is a show! That was a real show when those two got together! Anyway, one story, and I told this at the last high school reunion that we had – and this is Boyd’s story because I didn’t have Miss Halterman. She was sort of an old-looking woman, and she wore her clothes all kind of floppy, and wore dark dresses, you know. They said she wore the same old dress all the time, I don’t know whether she did or not! [Laugh] But they said she had a PhD. So she wasn’t dumb. But somehow something happened to her mind, and somebody said she wound up in Western State, I don’t know. But anyway, she taught up there for four or five years. But to my story – one of the Swisher boys – Henny Swisher. That’s all that family – he’s next to the youngest. He was in that class. He was in my brother’s class, but he was taking Biology with Boyd. Yeah, it was Biology because they had to draw the things, you know. Anyway, Henny was in there, and Boyd passed work – he drew his thing and wrote his story and did it all right, and turned it in, and he got an A+ on his. Well, Henny hadn’t turned his in. [Laugh] He said, “Boyd, let me have yours. Let me have yours!” So Boyd gave it to him. He erased the grade, and erased Boyd’s name, put his name on it – these were juniors and seniors in high school! Put Boyd’s name on it and passed it in to Miss. Halterman. Well. It came back with a “C” – with a “C” on it! [Laugh] Chewning [Laugh] Stuart: And it didn’t stop there. Henny took it and said, “Miss. Halterman, now this is the same paper [laugh] this is the same paper that Boyd Stuart passed in. Now see right there’s his name, right where I erased it! [Laugh] And you gave him an A+. See, you can see it right there. [Laugh] You gave him an A+, and you gave me a C. Now I want to know why.” She said “ Okay. Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay.” And she gave him an A+. I mean, that story never ended! [Laugh] Chewning [Laugh] Stuart: Oh, my gosh!. I told that thing, and I said I’m going to give the credit for this story to Boyd Stuart, it’s his story! [Laugh] But Henny Swisher said it was true. I saw Henny Swisher after Boyd died. He said, well, it sure as hell was his idea, it sure as hell was true! [Laugh] Oh, Lordy! But there was just story after story when Marjorie Ann and Boyd got together. And one of them would say, “Oh, that reminds me – she did -- ” [Laugh] But the only one I remember was the one with Henny Swisher. [Laugh] I mean, that just [laugh] kills me! Chewning: [Laugh] Stuart: Unbelievable! In the first place, he should have been expelled, and Boyd for giving it to him! I mean – [laugh] Oh Lord have mercy! But they said – and I’ve heard them laugh about they used to lock each other in the closet, and she’d come in and say “Now where is such-and-such?” They’d say, “Well, he’s in the closet.” “Well what is he doing in there?” [Laugh] Not ever “Don’t ever do that!” you know, just “What is he doing in the closet?” [Laugh] Oh, my gosh! Anyway – Chewning: What a crowd! Stuart: What a crowd is exactly right! Oh, Lord. [Laugh] But boy, you didn’t do that in Miss Trimmer’s classes. Whoa. Ah – Carl Newcomer took Latin one year with me. And I tell you, Miss Trimmer spent half of every class jumping on him. He never – he never did what he was supposed to do. [Laugh] He just knew he was going to get it. I talked to him just recently. He still remembers it. But he hung in there! He didn’t quit. [Laugh] Chewning: Good for him. Wow. Stuart: But anyway. Chewning: Well, I’d probably better go. [End of tape 2, Side B] [End of Tape 2] Louise Wiseman Stuart Index A Arehart, Buzz · 6 Asbury Church · 43 Aunt Bessie · 7 B Barnes, Dick · 26 Barnes, Richard · 5 Beard, Richard · 18, 75 Beards · 61 Belle, Edwin · 62 Bellevue · 65 black church · 35 Blackwell, Elmer · 79 Blackwell, Phyllis · 81 Blalock, Chris · 2 Bolen, Hassie Dice · 10, 79 Bosworth house · 50 Bosworth, Dr. · 24 Bosworth, Jimmy · 39 Bosworths · 15 Bowles · 22 Bowles, Bobby · 36 Bowles, Edith and Edgar · 35 Brady, Mary · 57 Brownsburg air raid drills · 18 bank · 23 barber · 23 church · 35 croquet · 76 pool hall · 23 Post Office · 10 school · 9, 11–18, 30–34, 54, 62, 70–73, 89 rings · 82 shoe repair · 11, 25 shoemaker · 9 stores · 24 telephone · 39 telephone office · 23 C Campbell, Gwen · 15 Carl (subject’s brother) · 19 Carwell boys · 75 Carwell girls · 79 Carwell, Mildred · 59 Carwell's garage · 23 Chittum, Marjorie Whitesell · 41, See Whitesell, Marjorie Ann Chrysanthemum Show · 59 D Davis Station · 6 Dice, Mrs. · 88 Dice. Mr. · 43 Diehl, Dr. · 13 Dixon Graham · 89 Dot (subject's mother's sister) · 21 Drivers house · 43 Dudley family · 41 Dunaway family · 40 E East · 13 East, George · 19, 31, 82 Englemans store · 22 F Fairfield · 1 G Gilliam, Catharine · 15, 24 Gordon · 3 Gordon family · 4 H Halterman, Miss · 71 Hanna, Dr. C. Morton · 29, 59, 62 Harlow, Houston · 35 Harris, Margaret Wade · 22, See Wade, Margaret (Tootsie) Harrison, Randy · 5 Heffelfinger, Jen · 12 Hickman, Troy · 88 High Nooners · 64 Hockmans · 2 Houser, Mrs. · 8 Houston, Mr. · 62 Huffman, Elmer · 21, 23 Huffman, Isabel · 11, 16 Huffman, Julian · 11 J Jeffries, Dr. · 1 L Lackey, Fred · 78 Layman’s Apple Orchard · 1 Leech, Isabel · 11, 31 Leech, Thelma · 12 Lewis, John · 63 Lotts, Mary · 59 Lucas, Carrie · 61 Lunsford, Mr. · 14 Lunsford, Walter and Doris · 11 Lunsfords · 9 M Martin, Bud · 61, See Massanetta · 58 Matheny, Harve · 25 Mays, Virginia · 11 McClung, Senora · 13 McNutt, Hugh · 8 McNutt, Isabel · 11 Miley family · 41 Miller, Sam · 18 Moneymaker, Janet Reese · 3 Monopoly · 37 Montgomery, Mrs. · 13 Moore, Frances Wiseman · See Wiseman, Frances Moore, Tinker · 78 Morris, Marie (Mamie) · 34 N New Providence Church · 6, 58 black members · 61 bus · 61 cemetery · 66 Newcomer, Carl · 73 O outhouse fire · 4–5 P paperdolls · 28 Patterson family · 24 Patterson, Ag · 5 Patterson, Ed · 4, 74 Patterson, Jenny · 27 Patterson, Rosenell · 17, 70 Patterson, Rosenell. · 17 Patterson, Sam · 75 Pearl Harbor Day · 29 Pisgah · 3 Porter, Aunt Susan · 45 Potter, Aunt Sis (subject's great-great aunt) · 9 Powell family · 67 Powell, Anna Margaret · 67 Price, Dr. · 54 Price, Marilyn · 54, 55 R Reese · 2 Reese, George · 3 Reese, Weasel · 3 Robinson, Ralph · 18 S Shorter, Senora · 13 Shulls · 62 Sites, Isabel · 57 Slusser family · 35 Slusser, George · 82 Sterrett’s farm · 88 Stevenson, Doug · 56 Stuart, Boyd · 8, 12, 17, 18, 30, 31, 36, 49, 62, 64, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 81, 82, 89 Stuart, Louise Wiseman · 1 birth · 1 brother Carl · 4 business school · 66 church elder · 49 family · 2 father · 7, 8 in Brownsburg · 1, 4, 9 in Davis Station · 6 Mother’s sister, Helen · 4 schooling · 8, 11 sister Frances · 4 Supinger, Bob · 23 Supinger, Osie · 51 Supinger’s Store · 22 Swisher, Henny · 71, 75 Swisher, Jeff · 53 Swopes family · 37 T Tolley, Leonard · 75 Trimmer, Miss (Osie) · 17, 21, 30, 53–55, 70, 80 Troxell, Clint · 38 W Wade family · 9, 21 Wade, Annie · 9 Wade, Blair Terrell · 69 Wade, Edith · 35 Wade, Elsie · 61 Wade, James F. · 70 Wade, Jen · 12 Wade, Margaret (Tootsie) · 9, 51 Wade, Mattie · 51 Wade, Pauline · 12 Wade, Randall · 8, 27, 57, 60, 63, 64, 66 Wade, Winston · 67 Wade’s cemetery lot · 64 Wade’s Mill · 67 Walthals · 62 Ward, Lib · 10 Whipple, Dorothy · 52 Whipple, Mollie Sue · 2, 16, 31 Whipple, Mollie Sue & Fred · 52 White, Dr. · 62, 84 Whitesell family · 41 Whitesell, Ida · 10 Whitesell, John Layton · 10, 31, 34 Whitesell, Marjorie Ann · 21, 22, 25, 26, 27, 38, 53 Wiseman, Carl · 82, 83 Model T · 74–76 wounded in WW II · 83, 87 Wiseman, Frances · 77 Wiseman, Johnnie · 2 Woody’s store · 5 World War II · 18–20, 29–30, 82–89 casualties · 19, 82, 88, 89 V mail · 85