June 2006 Interview with Mollie Sue Whipple By Dick Barnes [Information enclosed in brackets [ ] is not on the audio and is inserted for clarification or editorial purposes.] Barnes: This is Dick Barnes, and I’m sitting here today with Mollie Sue Whipple. The date is June 10, 2006, and this is being recorded in Brownsburg. Mollie Sue lives now at Sunnyside in Harrisonburg, VA, but she’s back for a visit in Brownsburg, and we’re going to ask her a few questions today about her experience having been such a long-time resident of Brownsburg. It’s nice to have you here and back in Brownsburg, Mollie Sue, and I do have a few questions I want to ask you for our history museum. The first one is: What is your first memory of Brownsburg? I know you’ve lived here a long time, but what are your first memories of coming to Brownsburg? Whipple: Well, I’ve lived in Rockbridge County since age five, and when I was in high school, I played in sports, basketball and baseball, and Brownsburg was one of the teams we had to play. So we would come over here to play ball, and they would visit us in Brownsburg – or Goshen – the next year. So that’s how I got to know about Brownsburg. Barnes: Your first introduction to Brownsburg was sports. Whipple: Yes. Barnes: Coming over and playing sports. Whipple: Playing ball. Barnes: Mollie Sue, before you moved to Brownsburg, you lived in Goshen. Is that right? Whipple: That’s right. Barnes: What brought you from Goshen to Brownsburg? Whipple: Well, to teach school. Barnes: Now, what year was that? Whipple: 1936. I applied to the School Board for a job to teach school, and this was my first assignment, to come to Brownsburg to teach in 1936. Barnes: And you taught at the – it was then called the Brownsburg School? Whipple: Brownsburg Academy. And I taught -- had the first and second grade when I first arrived. But it was the first year of compulsory education, and they beat the bushes and brought them all in, and when they got through registering the first day of school, I had 64 students. Ages 12-6, so they soon knew that was an impossible situation. So they divided them, and got another teacher to teach the second grade, and I kept the first grade. Barnes: Were there only two grades to start with? Whipple: No, we had high school. Barnes: So you had one through twelve? Whipple: One through twelve. Barnes: And you were the first grade teacher – Whipple: That’s right. Barnes: -- in Brownsburg, in 1936. Whipple: That’s right. And I taught there for 33 years. Barnes: And you also met somebody at school that had a great influence on your life, too, did you not? And you ended up marrying him? Whipple: Yes. After I had taught four years, I think, then I met Fred. And I was thinking seriously then of moving somewhere else to teach. But I met Fred then, and we fell in love, and I got -- we got married in 1940. And I was married to him for sixty-some years. Almost 64 years. Barnes: Well, I remember Fred well, and of course, the rest of that is history. I mean, as you say you lived in Brownsburg for over 60 years, and had a great experience with school, and of course, knowing everybody that lived in Brownsburg at the time, and even since you left teaching. What was Brownsburg like during the first years that you lived here? This was even before the paved roads, was it not? Whipple: The road right through Brownsburg was paved. But up to that point on each end was dirt. But it was an interesting village, to say the least. We had five stores, grocery stores. On Saturday night, people didn’t go to Lexington on Saturday night, they came to Brownsburg. And they brought butter and milk, and things to barter at the stores. You could hardly get a parking place, up and down the streets. And the men loafed in the stores and did the bartering, and the women visited in the cars. And the kids played up and down the street, and it went on up until about 10 o’clock at night. And it was very interesting to watch. [Laugh] Barnes: So somewhat of a social event, and at the same time they were getting their provisions for the week, the next week, weren’t they. Whipple: That’s right. Barnes: Who owned the stores? Do you remember who the first owners were, say, at that particular time when you first came to Brownsburg? Whipple: Well, this store belonged to the Whipples, but Mr. [Bob] Supinger ran the store. Barnes: This is the one directly across the street from your home [2728 Brownsburg Turnpike]? Whipple: Yes. Barnes: And catty-cornered across the street from the Museum [2716 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Whipple. Yes. And in your home, your house [8 Hays Creek Road], the Farm Bureau had a store. And the [Huffman’s] filling station had a store [2712 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Barnes: Now that’s next door to – that’s Mary Jane Burns – Whipple: That’s right. Barnes: -- and Wood Burns’ place. Whipple: And John Layton Whitesell had a store in house [2664 Brownsburg Turnpike]. What was the other one?? The Bosworth’s store [2707 Brownsburg Turnpike], which now – Barnes: That was next door to P.G. and Susan Arnold’s; the old bank – Whipple: That’s right. Barnes: -- which, of course has been converted into a home. That was next door to P.G. and Susan Arnold’s. Whipple: Yes. Barnes: Well, it was – what about, what about the churches. You know, when you first moved here? Whipple: There was only the colored church, the black church, Asbury Methodist. And all the citizens around, and in the country went to New Providence. That was the only Presbyterian church in the area. Barnes: Of course we’ve mentioned schools, and of course they had the Brownsburg Academy here at that point in time. And then, the social events, of course, were pretty much a Saturday night kind of thing. Was there ever any kind of organized social events in Brownsburg that you recall? On the Fourth of July, or any special occasions? Whipple: No. Barnes: People just created their own social events – Whipple: That’s right. Barnes: -- when they came to town on Saturday night. Whipple: Everybody did their own thing. [laugh] I might add for the schools, the Brownsburg Academy, was up here at first, and it was for men only, young men of the area. And there was a school for young ladies down at the Moneymaker house [Bellevue Home School at 952 Hays Creek Road]. Barnes: That’s out on what we now know as Hays Creek Road. Whipple: Yes. Hays Creek. Barnes: Out here, the big red brick house – Whipple: That’s right. Barnes: -- about two miles out of town here. Whipple: They had quite a wonderful course of study for the young men [at the Brownsburg Academy]. Because many of them went right from there into law school. To be doctors and what not. That’s another interesting thing about Brownsburg. They called the doctors, just like they called the preacher to the Presbyterian church. The community got together and put up the salary for the doctor to come. And they built a house, a brick house here on Main Street for the doctor, with an office in it [2744 Brownsburg Turnpike]. And they would call a doctor from, usually from Richmond from the medical school. He would come and live there and he was a country doctor. He would make calls out in the country at night. And that was an interesting thing. I would ride with them a lot, and show him where people lived. His wife and I were real good friends. Barnes: Now, what was his name? Whipple: Dr. Williams. Dr. Joseph Williams. And he moved from here then to Staunton. And Dr. Taylor came. And Dr. Taylor stayed a number of years, and he left here, and went to Richmond, I think. And then we haven’t had a doctor since. Barnes: Do I recall that somewhere I read there was Dr. Campbell -- Whipple: Yes. Barnes: -- at one point time? Whipple: Yes. He would be back early. I think at one point in time they had three or four doctors here. Barnes: But that was – Whipple: Yes Barnes: -- long since. Whipple: Horse and buggy days. Barnes: Exactly. What do you think, in your memory was the most interesting or outstanding event that ever happened in Brownsburg during your living here? Anything stand out in your mind that -- I remember since I’ve lived here we had our 200th Anniversary some years ago. Whipple: That’s right. Barnes: Had a big crowd, a lot of people who came back, and all. But the – most of the social activities and all, centered really around New Providence church, I think. Whipple: I think so. Barnes: You know. They had a lot of events and things like that that went on out there because everybody was, for the most part was a member out there. Whipple: Everybody in the area belonged to that church. Came in horses and buggies. Barnes: There have been a lot of other events that were not so good, I guess. Tragic events, bad events, anything come to mind that happened during the time that you lived here that were particularly not good events, or things that made an impression on Brownsburg that would come to mind? Whipple: Well, before I came, I mean Brownsburg had many things to happen. Many fights. Saturday night was famous for fights here. [Laugh] And Brownsburg had a murder. They had much shooting and going on. I just don’t recall. Barnes: I had certainly heard of a story like that that was mentioned to me when I first moved here. In fact, I think it was Dr. Campbell, down here in Ag Patterson’s house, that took care of maybe some of those people that were shot during that Saturday night. Whipple: Yes, they had at the old Academy School, upstairs was an auditorium. And that’s where they held court. And this guy -- Dr. Campbell’s [Whipple is referring to Dr. Zachariah Walker] wife was seeing another man. And Dr. Campbell [Walker] took that up at court. And it just got kind of out of hand, and Dr. Campbell [Walker] did the shooting, didn’t he? Barnes: I’m not sure about that. Whipple: I’m not sure about that either. But anyway, someone was shot. Barnes: That was tragic. Whipple: I just don’t remember about that court scene. But they didn’t have much court there afterwards. [Laugh] Barnes: I know that you have told me many stories about events that have happened in your life while living here. Tales, I guess, we would call them. Do you recall any right off hand that you would like to share with us? Whipple. Yes. When Mr. [Bob] Supinger had a store here, he and this other – before that, this lady [Mrs. Mamie Morris] came through Brownsburg, and she stopped up the street at the Swope house, and started living there. And she was a Quaker lady. And they built a church [Friends Lighthouse Mission Church in the lot between 2671 Brownsburg Turnpike and 2651 Brownsburg Turnpike]. And she had church up there, and lived there, and she took anybody that came in homeless – that came through, she’d take them in to live. And she had many different residents up there living with her. And one night, one of them was here in the store – Mr. Supinger’s store. And they got in an argument about something. Anyway, they decided to take their fight out in the street. And Mr. Supinger had this big butcher knife that he’d been cutting cheese. So he carried the knife with him, and this other guy didn’t have any weapon at all. So he went out there and was picking up rocks. Mr. Supinger said, “Ah ha, you dirty coward, you want to fight with rocks!” And Mr. Supinger was standing there with this big butcher knife to carve him up! And right down the street lived this little old lady with a little girl, a young lady, that she had taken in to live with her. So she said “Mary Stuart, run up there and see who that is fighting. So Mary Stuart ran up here to the fight, and she ran back down and said, “Grandma, it’s one of those damn preachers from up at Mother Morris’ fighting Mr. Supinger!” [Laugh] Barnes: We were talking about your experiences at the Brownsburg Academy. Do you have anything you want to share with us, Mollie Sue, concerning any particular events that happened there? Whipple: Yes, while I was teaching, most of the students came in on school buses. They lived out in the rural areas. And I had this one family that lived up on top of the mountain. They had to walk down to the bus, and then ride about – how far is it from McCray’s store into here? I would say eight or ten miles. And so I was having a program one night, and my main characters lived up on the mountain. And the other – the school bus went up for them. And the other children that lived on that route came, but this one child didn’t come. And I questioned where he was, and some of the people on the bus said “Well he had to jump a creek – coming down the mountain he had to jump the creek, and when jumped the creek, he jumped right on a skunk.” So he had to go back home. He couldn’t come. [Laugh] And another day, I had two little boys that came in, and you could smell them long before they got there. They’d been out skunk hunting. And they were just awful. So I told them I couldn’t let them stay in the room, the children were having a fit. So they’d have to sit out in the hall, and I’d give them their lessons out there. And I went out to check on them, and they’d disappeared. So I just didn’t know what to do. I started inquiring around, anybody had seen them, and somebody said, “Yeah, they said they were going home.” I was horrified, because they had to walk about eight miles home. And I got the principal, and she got in the car and started driving trying to find them, but they’d gotten all the way home before she found them. [Laugh} Barnes: You mentioned the principal. What was the principal’s name? Whipple: Miss Trimmer. Ocie Trimmer. And she ran the school more like a military concern. She just – I mean, she had strict, strict discipline. Nobody dared cross Miss Trimmer. Barnes: And there was a lady that I’ve heard several people mention that lived down where the Post Office is now, and I think she had – she just had one leg. She had a wooden leg. Whipple: That’s right. Barnes: Who was that? Whipple: Miss Pet [Berry]. And Miss Pet would come out on that porch, and prop that stump up on the railing, and stand and lean on her crutch, and talk for hours. She had a real loud voice. And right across the street was the doctor’s office. And sometimes he would be away – he’d go to Roanoke on weekends, and he hadn’t come back. So Miss Pet would tell everybody that would come to see the doctor where he was. And he wasn’t there and he wasn’t coming in. And so one day he came across the street, she was one the porch, and he got his checkbook out, and he said, “Miss Pet, I want to pay you.” “Oh,” she said, “Dr. Bailey, you don’t owe me a thing.” And he said, “Oh, yes, I do too. I owe for taking care of my business all the time, and I want to pay you!” [Laugh] Barnes: Taking care of his business. The person that lived where Dick Anderson lives now that had – there was a hospital in the back of that [2671 Brownsburg Turnpike]. The little log building still exists there. Wasn’t that a hospital at one time? Whipple: It was. Barnes: Right here in Brownsburg. Whipple: This little lady I was telling you about a while ago [Mrs. Mamie Morris] had a hospital there when she lived there. The little -- Barnes: It’s a little log cabin. Whipple: Yeah. Barnes: It’s still out in the back. It’s been restored. Whipple: Yes. And she would take in people sick, and nurse them until they’d get well. Barnes: And that was where she did a lot of the nursing. Or – Whipple: That’s right. Barnes: -- whatever was. A little log cabin out there. Whipple: And preach. She’d preach to them along while she was bringing them back to health. [Laugh] Barnes: Mollie Sue, when I moved here twenty years ago, one of the things that struck me as being very interesting about Brownsburg was the integrated community which appeared to have been here for a long, long time. Was this the case? Has it always been an integrated community with the blacks and the whites? Whipple: Yes, when I came here to live that surprised me too, because in Goshen, the blacks all lived in one section, the whites in another. But here, you’d find every other house was black, and every other house white. And we got along beautifully. And at church also. They built a balcony at our old church [New Providence Presbyterian Church], and the slaves all sat up in the balcony. We’ve had such a nice class of blacks here. They still have a very active church here. A Methodist church – that’s in the village. Barnes: I know, Mollie Sue, you’ve seen many changes take place in Brownsburg over the years. Would you like to share any of those changes with us? Whipple: Yes, we had five stores at one time. And now we have no stores at all. You can’t even buy a Coca Cola in Brownsburg. And also, we have a nice antique shop. We never had an antique shop before. And now we have a nice antique shop. We still have a Post Office which is very old, and heated with a fireplace. People enjoy going for their mail in the mornings in wintertime, and backing up to that fireplace because there’s always a fire there. Barnes: Wasn’t Mr. Whipple, Fred Whipple, very involved in the formation of the first bank here, the Bank of Rockbridge – the Bank of Brownsburg? Whipple: Yes. Fred’s father was. The first -- Barnes: Now his first name – he was David. Whipple: David. Barnes: David Whipple. Whipple: And the first bank was in this very building we’re in, this Museum [2716 Brownsburg Turnpike]. And the citizens got together and decided they needed to build a bank. And have a real bank. So they organized, and they put up money to build the bank across the street, the stucco bank [2711 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Barnes: What year would that have been, do you think? Early 1900’s? Whipple: Yes. Barnes: Nineteen hundred? Nineteen ten? Whipple: Yes I’m sure it had to be about that time. Also, when they built the bank, upstairs, in this building we’re in had a telephone exchange in it, upstairs. So when they built the bank, they built the telephone exchange office upstairs. In the bank. And it stayed there until they sold the bank. Barnes: The bank closed in 1999, I think here after several mergers with other banks. But it closed, as I recall, in 1999. Whipple: I think it was. I have another story to tell you. This family [the Pete Carwell family] lived down here along the creek, and their house burned down. And they ordered one from Sears Roebuck. And the house came, and they built it up down there, and they had a lot of children. And one little boy – this was during the Depression – they called him “Herbert Hoover”. And Herbert Hoover was down playing along that creek one day, and it was up. It had been raining, it was high. And he fell in, and he washed through the culvert under the road, and the rest of the big kids ran across on the other side, and fished him out when he came through! [Laugh] I thought that was a funny story. Barnes: Mollie Sue, it was your idea that prompted the creation of the Brownsburg Christmas Tour of Homes. Many successful tours have been held, raising funds for community improvement. And now the largest undertaking of the Brownsburg Community Association is the creation of the Brownsburg Museum. Your willingness to give us a long-term lease on the property next door to your home is sincerely and deeply appreciated. I assume the Museum idea pleases you. Whipple: Oh, I’m so pleased with the idea, and I’m happy with the way it is coming together, and has brought the community together. I can’t wait for it to be finished and really see what’s there. That’s a nice little house, and it was just empty and falling down. I didn’t want to put a lot of money in it, and it’s just the right size. I’m just delighted to have it for the Museum. [End of Tape 1] [interview ends] Mollie Sue Whipple Index A Asbury United Methodist Church · 5, 20, 22 Lawn Parties · 35 B Bailey, Dr. Brownsburg Doctor · 11, 41 Bank of Brownsburg · 13, 25, 40 Barter System · 19 Bellevue Home School · 6 Berry, Pet · 11 Border Collies · 23 Brown Family · 35 Brown, Jim · 35 Brownsburg 200th Anniversary · 7 Antique Shop · 12 Bank · 13, 25, 31 Blacksmith Shop · 26, 42 Businesses · 18 Christmas Tour of Homes · 14 Doctors · 6 Doctor's House · 6, 40 Integrated Community · 12 Museum · 14 Post Office · 12 Saturday Nights · 3, 8, 19 Sears and Roebuck House · 14 Shoemaker · 37 Stores · 3, 12, 28 Brownsburg Academy · 6 Brownsburg School · 27 Accredited · 43 Compulsory Education · 2 Glee Club · 43 School Buses · 10 Sports · 43 C Carwell Family · 14 Carwell, Herb · 14 Carwell's Garage · 19 Castle Carbury · 36 Compulsory Education · 2 D Day, Bobby · 24 F Farm Bureau · 4, 19 Farming Dairy · 16, 24, 32 Sheep · 23 G Gilmore's Store · 35 Goshen · 2, 12, 16 H Hecht, Sue Whipple · 17, 36 Longwood College · 44 Heffelfinger, Grace · 36 Heffelfinger, Jen · 26, 36 Heffelfinger, Steve · 36 Huffman's Filling Station · 4 Huffman's Store · 19 L Lunsford, Doris · 25 M Matheney, Harve · 37 Mays Mill · 34 McClung’s Mill · 34 McCormick, Margaret · 32 McLaughlin, Dr. Henry New Providence Minister · 21 McNutt Family · 15 Morris, Mamie · 9, 11 N New Providence Presbyterian Church · 5, 7, 12, 20 P Penick, Mary Monroe · 37 Pleasants Family · 35 Pleasants, Ada · 34 Porter, Susan · 38 R Roads, paved · 3 S Skunks · 10 Supinger, Bob · 4, 9 Supinger's Store · 19 Swope, Donnie · 36 Swope, Joyce · 36 T Taylor, Dr. Brownsburg Doctor · 7, 41 Telephone Exchange · 13 Trimmer, Ocie · 10, 17, 45 Troxell, Clint · 38 W Wade, Amelia · 39 Wade, Jane · 25 Wade, John · 36 Wade, Kate · 36 Wade, Margaret · 36 Wade, Mary · 36 Walker, Zachariah · 8 Whipple, David · 13 Whipple, Douglas · 18 Whipple, Fred · 3, 13, 16 Augusta Military Academy · 18 Bank President · 25 Dairy Farmer · 16 Dogs · 23 Family · 28 Jury Duty · 24 Military Service · 16 Sheep Farmer · 23 Whipple, Fred Jr. · 16, 36 Virginia Tech · 30 Whipple, Mollie Sue Child care · 17 Courtship · 18 Goshen Childhood · 2 Marriage in 1940 · 3 Organist · 20 Pianist at Asbury UMC · 20 Sports · 1 Teacher · 2, 17, 21 Whipple, Robert · 29 Whipple's Store · 4, 28 Whitesell's Store · 4, 19 Williams, Dr. Joseph · 7 Brownsburg Doctor · 41 World War II Farm Machinery Repair · 28