June 2006 Interview with Mollie Sue Whipple By Dick Barnes [Information enclosed in brackets [ ] is not on the audio and is inserted for clarification or editorial purposes.] [Tape 2] Interview ends February 2008 Interview with Mollie Sue Whipple By Georgiana Young Young: This is Georgie Young. I’m with Mollie Sue Whipple, and we’re doing an interview on Leap Day, February 29, 2008. We’re at Sunnyside Retirement Home in Mollie Sue’s room. So say hello, Mollie Sue. Whipple: Hello! Hello! Young: Mollie Sue, how long did you live in the Brownsburg area? Were you born in Brownsburg? Whipple: No, I came to Brownsburg to teach school in 1952 [according to earlier interview, correct date was 1936]. And I boarded at the McNutt’s. Young: Tell us about the McNutts. Whipple: Oh, they were an interesting farm family. She just worked all the time. He was the funniest little man. He milked cows, and we’d watch him in the morning to go out to milk the cow, and he’d sit there milking the cow and go to sleep with his head poked into the flank of the cow and go to sleep. [Laugh] And we’d watch him and laugh. [Laugh] After a while, the cow would switch her tail around and hit him in the head and wake him up. And he’d get up and bring the milk on in the house. That was a wonderful place to board. We had a nice room, and Mrs. McNutt was an excellent cook. She had wonderful meals, and it was all home grown. She worked so hard all summer canning all this food and preserving it to have in the winter. And we always had the most delicious country ham. And we packed lunches. She gave us not only breakfast and dinner at night, but lunch. So we packed our lunch for each day; at school we had no lunchroom. You took your lunch. We had wonderful lunches. So I enjoyed my years there. I lived there five years, I think, before I got married. I met Fred, my husband, while I was teaching, and we went together four years, maybe five, and we got married in 1940. Young: Did Fred serve in the war? Whipple: Yes. Fred was in Tokyo, Japan during the war. Freddie [Whipple’s son Fred R. Whipple, Jr.] was two years old when he left. Young: Goodness. That was tough. Whipple: Before he left, he told Freddie that he would be the man of the house. He had to take care of me, he was going to be away. And Freddie had to take care of me. And he took that so seriously – he’s still doing it! [Laugh] And I’ll tell you, he was so cute, ‘cause I would go to walk somewhere, and he’d say, “Wait now, Mama, let me hold your hand. Dad said to take care of you.” So anyway, it got to be a funny joke. He [Fred, Sr.] was gone two years, and I stayed in Brownsburg, and in Goshen, my home, part of the time. But I kept my home [in Brownsburg], and we stayed there because I thought that’s where my child needed to be, was in his own home. Young: How about the farm – Fred’s farm, the dairy farm? Whipple: When he came back from the war, we got dairy cattle. Young: Right out there in Brownsburg? Right behind your house [2728 Brownsburg Turnpike]? Whipple: Right there in Brownsburg. Right in the middle of town. We had a barn on one side of the street, and a dairy barn on the other side. They picked up our milk there, I think from Harrisonburg. They ran a truck two or three times a week and picked up the milk from our dairy cows. We were in the dairy business a long time, I don’t know how long. Anyway, I was teaching school all this time, and I just had to walk up the hill to the school. I didn’t have a car. What else? Young: Well, did you have daycare for your kids, or did you – Whipple: No. I had real good help. A colored girl that lived there in town, she cleaned house for me and did chores, and kept my children. If something happened and she couldn’t come, I just took them to school. I was teaching primary grades, and I know I took Fred several times ‘cause I had no one to keep him. And he was a real good child, and the children loved having him to come. They wanted to entertain him all day. [Laugh] And it was about five years before I had another child, before Sue [Whipple Hecht] came. Young: Sue’s five years younger than Freddie? Whipple: Six years. She was six years younger than Fred. And I think I still had the same help when she came along. Young: How about Miss [Ocie] Trimmer? Whipple: Miss Trimmer was the principal. And she ran more like a military outfit than anything. I mean you lined up when the bell rang to go into class. You would line up outdoors and wait for her to – we called it “reading the riot act.” She would give us new rules, and tell everybody what they were doing wrong. And then we marched in by the beat of a drum, one class at a time. And I know regardless of the weather, you lined up outside and marched into your room. Young: So the children didn’t come too early to school ‘cause they didn’t want to have to stand outside in winter! Whipple: Well, they all rode a school bus. All the children were bussed in. Nobody drove to school except some of the teachers. And they were all country children. All lived out in the country. They had many problems. Young: Was there anything that ever happened in Brownsburg that was really exciting while you were living there? That you remember very distinctly? Whipple: No, I really don’t. I don’t remember. We drove – one of the teachers who boarded at McNutt’s with me had a car, so we drove into the village about a mile and a half, I guess, to teach school. And we drove her car. The children all came to school on school busses. Young: How did you meet Fred? Whipple: Well, he was a local boy. And he was going to school at AMA [Augusta Military Academy?] at the time. And he came home, I guess for weekends or something. Anyway, I met him. And his brother – I had met his brother before – Doug. And Doug called and asked me if I would go up to a movie with them, with his brother. I’d never met Fred. So I told him yeah, I’d go with them. So we went to the movie, and then Fred and I dated from then on. And then four years later, we got married. Young: How fun! When did all the different stores close? How did that happen? Whipple: Oh, there were five stores in Brownsburg at one time. And one was the Farm Bureau. At that time, there were five grocery stores, the bank, a telephone exchange office, and a garage, and what else? It was a busy little town. Young: Where was the Farm Bureau? Whipple: In the store that is Dick Barnes’ house now [8 Hays Creek Road]. Young: In his house? Whipple: Um hmm. Young: And across the street where his [Dick Barnes’] antique shop is now was a grocery store? Whipple: A grocery store. And there was a garage, Mr. Pete Carwell ran the garage around the corner from the store [across from the driveway to 22 Hays Creek Road]. And he repaired cars. He always had a lot of cars in there working on them. And the telephone exchange. And Saturday night was a busy, busy time in Brownsburg. Everybody came to town. You couldn’t find a place to park, hardly, if you didn’t come early. And they brought produce – eggs and butter and milk – and exchanged at the store for groceries. The store stayed open, it seemed to me, forever. We had a store, and that store stayed open until 10 o’clock at night. And people just loafing and talking. The men loafed in the stores, and the women loafed in cars. They’d park on the street, and they would move from car to car and visit each other. And the kids played up and down the sidewalk. [Laugh] It was a busy time Saturday nights. Young: And the Whitesells had a store? Whipple: Whitesells had a store, and the Huffmans had a store. The Farm Bureau had a store. Mr. [Bob] Supinger had a store. And the men often times – it was a time of – they’d have drinks, and it would get rough! Fights – many fights! [Laugh] And one night two men – one of the men got in a fight with Mr. Supinger and they ran out on the street, and Mr. Supinger carried this huge butcher knife with him. And the guy that he was fighting gathered up some rocks. And Mr. Supinger said, “Uh huh, you dirty coward, you want to fight with rocks!” [Laugh] And he was standing there with this big butcher knife to carve him up! [Laugh] It was very entertaining on Saturday night! Young: How about the church? Whipple: The church was a thriving church, an old church. New Providence. When was it organized? Young: Oh, it was organized in 1746. Whipple: And we had something like 500 members then. ‘Cause everybody came in there. It was the only church in the village. There was a colored church, too. The [Asbury United] Methodist church. So the black folks had their church as well. I played for the black church one year ‘til they got someone to play for it. Every Sunday afternoon, I’d go to the colored church and play for church service. Young: Oh, how wonderful! ‘Cause you couldn’t go in the morning, cause you were playing the organ [at New Providence]. Whipple: No. I was at my church. That’s right. Young: How long were you the organist? Whipple: I was the organist at New Providence for 33 years. Young: Wow. When did you – had you always known how to play the organ? Whipple: No. No. They gave me a lesson. I went into Lexington, and the organist at the Presbyterian church in there showed me about the organ and told me how to do it. I just kind of taught myself. I practiced every Saturday. I’d go to church and practice the organ and get my music ready for Sunday. Young: Did you – was it because you played the piano and – Whipple: I had played the piano, so I knew how to do that. But I had never touched the organ. But I loved playing the pipe organ. People would start dragging the music and I’d just put down another loud stop go right on. They’d catch up and sing right along with me! [Laugh] So we didn’t have dragging music. Young: Did you have more than one service on Sunday morning with all those people? Whipple: No, we just had the one service. Eleven o’clock. We had Sunday School and a church service. Young: And was Dr. [Henry] McLaughlin the – Whipple: Yes. Yes. Dr. McLaughlin was there a long time. I can’t remember, we had many ministers, but I can’t remember who all they were. Young: Was he [Dr. McLaughlin] the minister when you got there? Whipple: I don’t know. I think he was, but I don’t remember. I’m 92 years old, and I don’t remember a whole lot! [Laugh] Young: You remember an awful lot! [Laugh] Don’t tell me that! How about at school? Anything exciting ever happen at school? Whipple: Always. Always. Of course, all the children came in on school busses. Nobody walked to school; they weren’t close enough. Young: How about the children in the village – did they walk? Whipple: Yeah, but there weren’t very many children in the village. But they did walk, those that were there walked. I had first and second grades. I think there was something like 50 students. So they decided that was too many students for one teacher, so they got another teacher for the second grade. And I had the first grade. Young: Is that what you taught the whole time? I thought you’d told me once that you were the Gym teacher for a while? Whipple: Oh, yeah, that was part of my schedule. Young: That was ‘cause you were athletic, right? Whipple: Um hmm. I had that with my class. And I taught PE, and music. One day a week, or two days a week, I don’t remember, I had the other classes for music class. Teach them songs. Young: So that’s when you started playing the piano for groups? Whipple: Yeah. Right. I don’t remember when I started playing for church. Young: Did they know you played the piano, and just came and ask you if you’d be willing to be the organist at the church? Whipple: Yeah. Young: And you were the organist ‘til Carole Griffin came to the church. Whipple: Yes, I was. A long time, 33 years. Young: Wow. Whipple: It was play for church on Sunday morning, then choir practice Sunday evening. Then I played for the colored church for a couple of years. They didn’t have anyone. So I’d go up there at 3 o’clock on Sunday afternoon and play for their church. That was a piano. That was fun. They loved to sing. Young: That’s right. Whipple: I mean they would really sing. That old church would rock! [Laugh] Young: Yeah, Presbyterians are a little more circumspect about their singing. [Laugh] Whipple: That’s right. Young: This is wonderful, Mollie Sue. Do you have anything else you want to tell us about? Tell us about Fred and his dogs, sheep dogs, his Border Collies. Whipple: Those Border Collies – when we first got married, he had bird dogs. And I never could take the bird dogs into the house and love them and pet them ‘cause they were working dogs. “You’ll ruin my dogs – don’t take them in the house!” “Alright.” So then we had Border Collies. We got sheep, and we had Border Collies. And they were the smartest dogs. He’d let them out of the kennel and say “Go bring the sheep in.” And they were way down the path there, and then over the hill where you couldn’t even see them. After while, they’d come back with the sheep. And one time they came back and one of the dogs – we had two – one of them went back over the hill, and I said, “Where is that dog going?” And he said, “Oh, probably jumped a groundhog somewhere and has gone back to get it.” Anyway, after while, that dog came back over the hill with this tiny little lamb. And he’d nudge that lamb along, and then he’d lay down and rest, let the lamb rest. And then he’d get up and get the lamb up and push it along. And it took them about an hour to get down off that hill into the barn with that little lamb. But the little lamb was in good shape when he got to the barn. [Laugh] He wasn’t worn out. Young: That’s amazing. Whipple: That was interesting. The sheep, I loved. When the sheep – sometimes they would be born on a really cold night and they wouldn’t survive, they got so chilled. But Fred brought this lamb to the house one day. I kept a pasteboard box in the kitchen to keep the lambs in. So he brought this little lamb up and put it in the box one cold, cold morning. And he said, “I don’t think this lamb’s going to make it. It’s almost frozen.” So I kept watching the lamb, and the little thing is lying in the box, and I thought, “You poor little thing, you’re not going to make it.” But I had some brandy left over from Christmas. I’d made fruitcake, bathed it in brandy. So I gave that little lamb a tablespoon of brandy, and it wasn’t long ‘til he was up in that box, just jumping around. [Laugh] When Fred came to the house, he said, “What in the world did you do to this little lamb?” I said, “I gave it a drink of whiskey!” And he said, “Well, I’ll tell you, he sure is frisky! I can take it back to the barn now.” So he took him back to the barn, and that lamb did fine. So I decided that was a good thing to give to lambs when they were too cold. Young: How long did you have sheep? Whipple: Oh, I don’t remember really. I guess we had them as long as he lived. Young: Did you switch from the dairy farm to sheep, or did you have both at the same time? Whipple: No, we switched. We got rid of the cows and had the sheep. We liked those better. They were easier to take care of. The cows were difficult in that they had to be milked twice a day. And I know once Fred was on jury duty. And he didn’t come home, and somebody said, “Oh, he won’t be home tonight ‘cause they went into – they’re going to have a night court.” So I called up to the courthouse, and asked to speak to the judge. And they said I couldn’t speak to the judge. Bobby Day was a Deputy then, and he said, “Mrs. Whipple, you can’t speak to the judge. What did you want?” I said, “I want Fred to come home and milk these cows! They’re standing around here bawling, and I can’t milk the first one. And there are 60 of them down here wanting to be milked.” So he said, “Well, I’ll tell the judge, but don’t be surprised if he doesn’t come home tonight.” [Laugh] So anyway, it wasn’t long until Fred came. He said, “How in the world did you have the nerve to call up there and want to speak to the judge?” [Laugh] I said, “Well, if you stood here and heard these cows bawling wanting to be milked very long, it didn’t take much nerve. And I didn’t know what else to do.” Young: Had Fred’s family had a dairy before him? Whipple: No. He went into it cold turkey. But it was real successful. And we liked the sheep much better than the cattle. It didn’t take as much work. And it was more profit. Shear those sheep and have the wool to sell and eat the lambs. Sheep were good business. Young: And along this time Fred got involved with the bank, too, right? Whipple: Yeah. His father was instrumental in getting the bank – the first bank in Brownsburg. So Fred fell right into it, and he was always connected to the bank as long as it was there. Young: That was wonderful. He was President of the Board of Directors for a while, right? Whipple: He was President of the bank for a long time. Young: I remember when I’d go into that bank, he’d always be there. Wanted to come in and check on how things were going. Whipple: Oh, he stayed there. Every day he went to the bank. [Laugh] Jane Wade and Doris Lunsford ran the bank. Young: Jane trained Doris, right? Whipple: Yeah, she did. Jen Heffelfinger was in there, and her brother John [Wade] when I went to Brownsburg. Young: Oh, really? Whipple: Um hmm. They ran the bank as long as they were living. It was a nice little bank. Young: It certainly was. Whipple: Bank of Rockbridge, Brownsburg. There were three branches, I think: Raphine, Fairfield, and Brownsburg. Had the three banks. Young: And eventually they had a bank in Lexington? Whipple: Yes. They consolidated. Brownsburg was a thriving little town with five stores, a bank, and a post office, and a garage. Young: A garage is crucial! [Laugh] Whipple: A garage. And at that time, too, the blacksmith shop, ‘cause horses always had to be shod, or the wagons had to be fixed. So we had a nice blacksmith’s shop. Young: Where was that? Whipple: It was up on the corner as you come out of Brownsburg going to Bustleburg, going around that corner [2610 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Lots of junk there now, but it was a good blacksmith shop. Young: Wow! I didn’t know that. Whipple: You didn’t? Young: No. I didn’t know that’s where the blacksmith’s shop was. Whipple: They shod horses there. Young: And when you first started, were you just at the old school, and then they built the new school? Whipple: Yeah. When I went, they had condemned the old school there. We couldn’t use the upstairs. The upstairs was an auditorium, but we couldn’t use that ‘cause the building had been condemned, and they didn’t want children up there. So they built a new school then. I don’t know what date that was. But anyway – Young: But it’s the old school that’s still standing? You weren’t there when the original school was – Whipple: Yes. Young: Oh, you were? Whipple: It was the Brownsburg Academy. The original. Young: And that building was torn down? Whipple: Yeah. Young: And the stucco building went up? Whipple: Yes. Young: And then while you were still there, they built – Whipple: Built the big brick building. And also the little brick building on the hill behind. And that was for Home Economics and Shop. The boys took Agriculture and Shop class. During the war, they used the shop a lot to repair farm machinery that would break down. They would have night classes to teach the farmers how to keep their machinery going. That was interesting. [Information repeated from prior interview deleted from transcript here.] Young: How about Fred’s family? How long had they lived in Brownsburg? Whipple: Oh, I don’t know. For years. Years. It was a big family. There were five boys and two girls in that family. They had lived there – Mr. Whipple ran the store for years. Young: And so Fred was the first one in the family to farm? Whipple: Um hmm. Yeah, he was. The store that the Whipples had – they ran both the one that Dick Barnes has for an antique shop [Old South Antiques], and where he lives [8 Hays Creek Road]. The house he lives in was a store. Young: And the Whipples ran both of those? Whipple: Um hmm. There were five stores when I was in Brownsburg. There was the Whipple’s store that the Supingers [ran], and the filling station that the Huffmans ran, and the Whitesells had a store. That’s three. The Farm Bureau ran a store. There’s another one. I can’t remember the fifth one. Young: That’s all right. What else was I going to ask you? So Fred, your husband, started farming. Now your son farms. Whipple: Yeah, and my grandson. Young: And your grandson. Whipple: Yeah, that’s all Robert [Whipple, Fred Jr.’s son] is going to do is farm. Young: And is he running his father’s farm now? Whipple: Um hmm. Yeah, at my place, when I was in Brownsburg. Young: Oh, really? Whipple: He’s going to have baby calves. He’s fixed up a place in the barn, and under the carport, I think he told me. Anyway, he’s got it all ready to go into raising baby calves. Young: I think that’s wonderful. So instead of being one of these old farm families, it’s a new farm family. Whipple: That’s right. That’s all he wants to do. Young: ‘Cause it started with your husband, not his parents, they were merchants. Whipple: Yeah. Well, Freddie, Robert’s father farmed. Young: Yes. And his grandfather farmed. Whipple: And Robert can fix anything. He just has that kind of mind. So anytime in the family anybody had something broken, they’d call Robert to come and fix it. And he could fix it usually. And one day he was fixing – Fred told him to fix the radio in his car, it wasn’t working. So I looked out. Robert went there and worked on it a while. I looked out to see what he was doing, and he had all the parts up on the roof of the car. And then he came in and sat down. So I said, “Robert, what’s going on out there? Have you gotten it all fixed?” He said, “I’m thinking. Don’t bother me, I’m thinking.” So I didn’t say anything more. After while he got up and went out there and put all that stuff in the car somewhere, and the radio is still running! [Laugh] He got it fixed. But that tickled me when said, “I’m thinking.” Young: Well, he [Robert Whipple] went to Tech [Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University], and Freddie [Fred R. Whipple, Jr.] went to Tech. How about Fred? Whipple: No, he didn’t. But my father went to Tech. And that’s what Robert said when he was going. Would I write something for him to get him in. And I said, “You just tell them that you’re the fifth generation to be a Tech student. Your great-grandfather went to Tech.” I said, “That’ll get you in.” And it did. That’s a picture of my father with his Tech uniform on. See the high collar? That’s what the uniform had then. Young: Well, this is really fun, Mollie Sue. Do you have any other things that you want to say, or do you just want close out? Whipple: I’ll close out. Young: Well alright. Thank you so much. [Interview ends] Mollie Sue Whipple Index A Asbury United Methodist Church · 5, 20, 22 Lawn Parties · 35 B Bailey, Dr. Brownsburg Doctor · 11, 41 Bank of Brownsburg · 13, 25, 40 Barter System · 19 Bellevue Home School · 6 Berry, Pet · 11 Border Collies · 23 Brown Family · 35 Brown, Jim · 35 Brownsburg 200th Anniversary · 7 Antique Shop · 12 Bank · 13, 25, 31 Blacksmith Shop · 26, 42 Businesses · 18 Christmas Tour of Homes · 14 Doctors · 6 Doctor's House · 6, 40 Integrated Community · 12 Museum · 14 Post Office · 12 Saturday Nights · 3, 8, 19 Sears and Roebuck House · 14 Shoemaker · 37 Stores · 3, 12, 28 Brownsburg Academy · 6 Brownsburg School · 27 Accredited · 43 Compulsory Education · 2 Glee Club · 43 School Buses · 10 Sports · 43 C Carwell Family · 14 Carwell, Herb · 14 Carwell's Garage · 19 Castle Carbury · 36 Compulsory Education · 2 D Day, Bobby · 24 F Farm Bureau · 4, 19 Farming Dairy · 16, 24, 32 Sheep · 23 G Gilmore's Store · 35 Goshen · 2, 12, 16 H Hecht, Sue Whipple · 17, 36 Longwood College · 44 Heffelfinger, Grace · 36 Heffelfinger, Jen · 26, 36 Heffelfinger, Steve · 36 Huffman's Filling Station · 4 Huffman's Store · 19 L Lunsford, Doris · 25 M Matheney, Harve · 37 Mays Mill · 34 McClung’s Mill · 34 McCormick, Margaret · 32 McLaughlin, Dr. Henry New Providence Minister · 21 McNutt Family · 15 Morris, Mamie · 9, 11 N New Providence Presbyterian Church · 5, 7, 12, 20 P Penick, Mary Monroe · 37 Pleasants Family · 35 Pleasants, Ada · 34 Porter, Susan · 38 R Roads, paved · 3 S Skunks · 10 Supinger, Bob · 4, 9 Supinger's Store · 19 Swope, Donnie · 36 Swope, Joyce · 36 T Taylor, Dr. Brownsburg Doctor · 7, 41 Telephone Exchange · 13 Trimmer, Ocie · 10, 17, 45 Troxell, Clint · 38 W Wade, Amelia · 39 Wade, Jane · 25 Wade, John · 36 Wade, Kate · 36 Wade, Margaret · 36 Wade, Mary · 36 Walker, Zachariah · 8 Whipple, David · 13 Whipple, Douglas · 18 Whipple, Fred · 3, 13, 16 Augusta Military Academy · 18 Bank President · 25 Dairy Farmer · 16 Dogs · 23 Family · 28 Jury Duty · 24 Military Service · 16 Sheep Farmer · 23 Whipple, Fred Jr. · 16, 36 Virginia Tech · 30 Whipple, Mollie Sue Child care · 17 Courtship · 18 Goshen Childhood · 2 Marriage in 1940 · 3 Organist · 20 Pianist at Asbury UMC · 20 Sports · 1 Teacher · 2, 17, 21 Whipple, Robert · 29 Whipple's Store · 4, 28 Whitesell's Store · 4, 19 Williams, Dr. Joseph · 7 Brownsburg Doctor · 41 World War II Farm Machinery Repair · 28