June 2006 Interview with Mollie Sue Whipple By Dick Barnes [Information enclosed in brackets [ ] is not on the audio and is inserted for clarification or editorial purposes.] April 2008 Interview with Mollie Sue Whipple By Georgiana Young Young: It’s April 30, 2008, and I’m here with Mollie Sue Whipple, and we’re talking about Brownsburg. Mollie Sue, you were telling me at lunch about the building that the museum is in [2716 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Could you tell us the history of that? Whose it was, and then how you acquired it? Whipple: That little house belonged to my mother-in-law, as did the big house that I was living in, the Whipple house [2728 Brownsburg Turnpike]. And it went for sale, so I bought it. And I didn’t know what I’d ever do with it, but anyway I didn’t want anybody living that close to me. So I bought that little house, and it’s just ideal for the museum. In fact, it is a little museum, because the first telephone office was in that building, and the first bank was in that little building. Young: And your mother-in-law acquired it after the bank moved across the street? Whipple: No, they had it first. And then after I had it, they thought that would be a good place for the bank. That’s where the bank was, and they decided it was too small, they had to build a larger bank. So they built the bank across the street [2711 Brownsburg Turnpike] and put a second story on it so they could put the telephone office upstairs and have it all in one building. Young: Can you tell us who any of the families were who lived there before that? Before – Whipple: Who lived in that house? No. They were tenants, and I don’t remember who they were. Young: And you said a woman who worked for your mother-in-law, for Mrs. Whipple – Whipple: Yes, Miss Margaret McCormick lived there when she was working for my mother-in-law. And Miss Margaret died, and no one lived there, to my knowledge, after that. Young: And you bought it. Whipple: And then I bought it. Yeah, when it went for sale, I bought it. Young: Did Miss Margaret help Fred at the dairy? Whipple: Yes, she did. She was his main help when he had milking cows. Young: So she was a pretty useful lady! Whipple: Oh, she certainly was! She had no home and no family, so she made her home there. And she lived with Mrs. Whipple for a long time. Young: Did Fred grow up in – which house did Fred grow up in? Whipple: The one across the street. The big house. The one we’re in now. [2728 Brownsburg Turnpike]] Young: And that was his parents’ home? And his mother moved out when you all moved in? Whipple: No, she died. We didn’t move in until it was empty. Young: Oh. So did you live somewhere else before you – Whipple: We lived across the street. In what Dick Barnes’ house – the brick house [8 Hays Creek Road]. Young: So that’s where you and Fred lived when you were first married? Whipple: Um hm.. First married. Young: Did Mrs. Whipple die after the war, or – Whipple: Yes, I think it was. Young: What happened – Fred’s father died fairly young? Whipple: Yes, I think so. Young: And his mother lived for quite a while after his father died? Whipple: Yes. Yes. Young: Okay. What about Fred’s brothers? Whipples: Now this is not about the Whipple family. Young: No, no, just history of Brownsburg. And she [Isabelle Chewning] was interested in Doug and D.W. Whipple: They’re the only two brothers I knew. I didn’t know the other boys. Young: We’ve got several editions of the Brownsburg Tattler, the school newspaper. Whipple: Yes. Young: And among the business ads is an ad for W. E. Mays Mill in Brownsburg. Do you know which one that was? Whipple: No, I don’t. Young: Yeah. I didn’t remember it either. Because I thought there were just Hays Creek [McClung’s] and Wade’s Mill. Whipple: Yeah, I thought so, too. Young: And Hays Creek was called McClung’s for a long time. Whipple: I think so. Young: How about a little more about the black community in Brownsburg. What was the name of the woman who kept Freddie and Sue? Whipple: Ada. Ada Pleasants. When I first came to Brownsburg to live, the blacks and whites all lived among each other. There was no section for black folks and white. We all just lived together. Young: Well that’s great! Whipple: And it was so different. I came from Goshen, and in Goshen, the blacks were all in one section of the village, and whites were all in the other section. So this was so different, because across the street from me lived a black family. And up the street further, there was another black family, and then a white family. And that was sort of unique with Brownsburg. Young: Wonderful, too. Did Fred employ any of the black men to work on the farm? Whipple: Yes, he employed Jim. Jim Brown was his name, and he was more like Uncle Remus than Uncle Remus himself. Jim entertained my children telling them stories. And one day I missed the children, so I walked out back of a wood house we had there to see if I could find them. And they were sitting behind that house on a bucket, an old turned upside-down bucket. Jim was sitting on that, and telling the children stories of Uncle Remus! [Laugh] Young: Oh what fun! Were there any black businesses in the village? Someone mentioned the Gilmore store south of where Doris and Walter [Lunsford] lived. Do you remember that? Whipple: Uh uh. I didn’t know about that. Young: And do you remember any of the ministers at Asbury? You used to play the organ at Asbury, is that right? Whipple: The piano. I’d go up there and play for them on Sunday afternoon at church. I did that for about a year. Young: Do you remember the Asbury lawn parties? Whipple: Oh, yes! A great time! [Laugh] Someone always got shot! Oh, they’d have big fights. It was an exciting time. Young: Who were the major black families in the village? Whipple: Pleasants, I think. And Browns were about the two main families. Young: There aren’t any descendants of the Wade family left in the area. Mollie Sue was good friends with the Wades: Mary Wade, Margaret Wade, and Kate Wade. Whipple: Yes. Young: And Jen Heffelfinger. Whipple: And John. They had a brother, John. Kate, Mary and Margaret and Jen and John. There’s another one. Young: And the house that they grew up in [34 Beard Lane] was named Castle Carbury. Whipple: Yes, that was out in the country. Out near the church [New Providence Presbyterian Church]. Young: Why did they name it that? Whipple: I don’t know. Young: Who were Freddie and Sue’s good friends when they were growing up? Whipple: The Heffelfinger children. Young: Sue and Grace were good friends? Whipple: Grace, um hmm. And Steve [Heffelfinger]. And Donnie Swope was a neighbor. I don’t remember the girl’s name – Joyce Swope. They lived in the brick house on Main Street in Brownsburg [2671 Brownsburg Turnpike]. We lived down the street. Young: Do you remember Mary Monroe Penick who came from Lexington to direct the New Providence choir? Whipple: Mary Monroe Penick was a great organist of the First Presbyterian Church in Lexington. She taught music, and she directed the choir, a beautiful choir. And she was very musical. And she agreed to come out there and direct our choir for a while. Young: And why did she do that? Whipple: Because we didn’t have anyone, I think. That was before I joined the church. I didn’t belong to the church at that time. The fact is, I had just gotten to Brownsburg at that time. And they got her to come out and direct the choir and teach them. Had a real good choir. Young: How about some of the characters in Brownsburg: Harve Matheney, who lived in a house in wheels and repaired shoes? Whipple: Yeah, he lived – it was like a trailer. And he was a shoemaker. He repaired shoes. He was a character. He had no education whatever, but he was wise in ways of the world! [Laugh] Had lots of wisdom! Young: And he would just go around to people’s houses? Whipple: No, they’d take shoes to him. Young: And where was his – Whipple: His shop was – his little trailer was parked behind the – what is now Dick Barnes’ house [8 Hays Creek Road]. And the buildings behind there. There were two big garages. So Harve’s trailer was parked right through there, and he lived there year round. Young: How about Clint Troxell? Whipple: Clint Troxell was another character. He was a plumber, and he lived down in Walker’s Creek. And every morning, the first thing you’d see out on the street in Brownsburg was Clint Troxell. He got up early, and he walked to Brownsburg, and he sat on the porch, the Supinger’s store porch, all day. [Laugh] And talked. And he was a character. He loved his whiskey. He drank quite a lot. Young: So by then he wasn’t a plumber anymore? When he used to – Whipple: Oh yes, when you had water problems, plumbing problems, Clint would come. And you knew he had been there because he’d pick up your nice towels and wipe the pipes on them, you know. And you knew he’d been there when he came, ’cause it was really a mess when he left! [Laugh] Young: And how about Susan Porter? The black woman who lived in the shack behind Dick Barnes’ house and cooked outside? Whipple: She did. I don’t know much about Susan Porter except that I’d see her over there. And she did live there by herself. I don’t know whether anybody ever looked after her or not. Young: You might have just arrived by the time of the dedication of the new brick schoolhouse in 1936 – were you there for that? Whipple: No, I don’t think so. Because when I came I started teaching in the brick building. Young: Is there anything else? How about the Heffelfingers? Tell me about the Wades. There was another family of Wades, wasn’t there? Whipple: The Wades that lived out at the mill. Young: Right. Whipple: Um hmm. That was another family. Young: And they owned a house in town, too, right? Wasn’t the house that’s now – you know that one next to Bill and – you know who I mean? Across the street from where you were and down the street? Between Betsy and the pool hall and that area? They did that fancy addition – Whipple: The bank was there [2711 Brownsburg Turnpike], and the pool hall and Bosworth’s store [2707 Brownsburg Turnpike], and the Bosworth house [2703 Brownsburg Turnpike]. And then the Withrow house 2693 Brownsburg Turnpike]. And then the Swope’s house [2671 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Young: The person I’m thinking of – Miss Amelia Wade – I thought she had a house – Whipple: Oh they lived out at the mill. Young: Yeah, but I thought that eventually they owned a house in Brownsburg? Whipple: Not that I know of. Young: Oh. Okay. And they weren’t related to the Wades you know? Whipple: No. Young: Nor were they related to the Wades that owned Wade’s mill. Whipple: That’s right. Young: Isn’t that funny. Three families of Wades, and nobody knew each other. I mean, weren’t related to each other. Whipple: That’s right. Young: Is there anything else you can think of that we need to know? Anything really fun that happened, or exciting? Whipple: Well, I think you need to know more about Brownsburg – Young: Alright. Whipple: -- than the people. Young: Okay. Whipple: When the folks in Brownsburg decided they needed – like they needed a bank. They just got together and gave the money and did the bank. Built the bank [Bank of Brownsburg] and got it started. Young: Whose idea was it? Whipple: I don’t know, but the leaders of the village! [Laugh] Young: Wow. Whipple: And you know, we got so many people started coming in, they needed a doctor. So they decided to call a doctor, just like the Presbyterians call a minister. They went to Richmond and found a doctor that would be willing to come to the country. So they thought, “If we get a doctor to come, we have to have somewhere for him to live, and an office,” so they built the house Ag Patterson lives in, the brick house [2744 Brownsburg Turnpike]. And put the office in the basement. So that was for the doctor’s house and his office. Young: And who was the doctor? Whipple: Dr. Bailey was the first doctor that came. Then Dr. Taylor came. And then Dr. [Joseph] Williams. So we really needed these country doctors. One at a time, they brought all the babies in the community. And they did house calls. They always called on patients at night, and the patients would come to them in the daytime, to the office. Young: When did the last doctor leave? Whipple: Dr. Williams was the last one here. And he moved to Staunton during the war. That was the last doctor we had in Brownsburg. Young: And is that when the Pattersons moved into that house? Whipple: Yes, they bought that house then, and moved in there. Better cut that thing off and let me think! Young: Alright. [tape stops momentarily] Whipple: When I came to Brownsburg, there was a lot going on here. We had five grocery stores, a doctor, a garage – Young: Didn’t you say two garages? How many garages? Whipple: Two garages. Oh, we had a garage to work on cars and then they had a blacksmith shop. A whole lot of horses had to be shod. A doctor. It was just a lot going on here. At that time, the post office – I mean the telephone office moved in. They had the bank. Young: Did you have a mayor? Whipple: No. Didn’t have a mayor! [Laugh] Young: No government. Whipple: No government. Young: Well that’s nice! Whipple: Everybody sort of ran it to suit themselves. [Laugh] We didn’t have a sheriff. I should make notes. Young: Tell me one more thing: what about the house that the Bobs [Bob Capito and Bob Williams] lived in that Betsy and Dick Anderson live in [2671 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Was there still – did that still have the – was that still a bar, or had that closed? Whipple: No, no! That was a private home. A family of Pattersons lived in that house [referring to Sleepy Hollow on Sterrett Road]. That was a private home. Was that the parents of – no? [tape stops momentarily] Whipple: -- until they died. Young: And then the bank just acquired it? Whipple: Um hmm. The bank acquired that building. Young: The bank started in the little building that you had, right? Whipple: Yes, that little museum house was the first bank. And after they got the other one built, then they moved across the street. Young: You were going to tell me a little bit about the school. Whipple: Yeah. We had a large high school here [in Brownsburg]. They ran about five or six buses in from the country into the village. Brought children to school on school buses. We had a rather large high school. A Glee Club – they sang well. They would put on wonderful plays at the school to make money. And we had good ball teams: basketball and baseball. And we played other schools in the county, and that was a great day when we’d have a game day. Young: When you first started teaching, Mollie Sue, I thought you taught elementary school. Was there both an elementary school and a high school? Whipple: Yeah. We had an accredited high school. There weren’t many in the county. Young: So were they all in the same building, or was the high school – Whipple: We had two buildings. The high school was in one building, and the elementary in the other building. They all came in on school buses, the kids did. I think we had about five school buses that would run in each day. It was sort of difficult at night to have programs with the children living so far away, a lot of them. But the parents would bring them, and they would come to the programs. Young: So the elementary school was first through the eighth grade – Whipple: First through seventh. Young: And then the high school was – Whipple: And then the high school was four years. High school. It had a Home Economics Department and an Agriculture Department. And during the war, the agriculture [department] had classes in the shop building. In the agriculture building. And they repaired machinery, that sort of thing. Young: To help with the war effort? Whipple: Um hmm. Young: And your kids went there from first grade through – Whipple: Through senior class. And they graduated as a senior in high school and go straight on into college and get along fine. Young: And did they both go to [Virginia] Tech? Whipple: No, Sue went to Longwood. Young: Did most of the kids go on to college, or just a few of them? Whipple: Um hmm. Young: Most of them? Whipple: Both of them. Young: No, I meant of the people who went – Whipple: Yeah, most families sent their children to college. Most of them went somewhere. Young: That’s great. Whipple: It was. Young: Tell me about the principal when you first came [Ocie Trimmer]. Whipple: She was a lady from Richmond, and a very strong person. And she ran that school like a military school. I mean that when the bell rang, everybody lined up outdoors in line and she had a drum. Somebody was beating the drum, and you marched to the drum, marched into the classroom. And you’d better be quiet! [Laugh] Young: And when did she – when did she retire? Whipple: Oh, I don’t remember. Young: Who replaced her? Whipple: Then we had a man principal after that -- Young: Was that Betsy’s father? Whipple: -- from then on. I don’t remember. I don’t know. Could have been. [interview ends] Mollie Sue Whipple Index A Asbury United Methodist Church · 5, 20, 22 Lawn Parties · 35 B Bailey, Dr. Brownsburg Doctor · 11, 41 Bank of Brownsburg · 13, 25, 40 Barter System · 19 Bellevue Home School · 6 Berry, Pet · 11 Border Collies · 23 Brown Family · 35 Brown, Jim · 35 Brownsburg 200th Anniversary · 7 Antique Shop · 12 Bank · 13, 25, 31 Blacksmith Shop · 26, 42 Businesses · 18 Christmas Tour of Homes · 14 Doctors · 6 Doctor's House · 6, 40 Integrated Community · 12 Museum · 14 Post Office · 12 Saturday Nights · 3, 8, 19 Sears and Roebuck House · 14 Shoemaker · 37 Stores · 3, 12, 28 Brownsburg Academy · 6 Brownsburg School · 27 Accredited · 43 Compulsory Education · 2 Glee Club · 43 School Buses · 10 Sports · 43 C Carwell Family · 14 Carwell, Herb · 14 Carwell's Garage · 19 Castle Carbury · 36 Compulsory Education · 2 D Day, Bobby · 24 F Farm Bureau · 4, 19 Farming Dairy · 16, 24, 32 Sheep · 23 G Gilmore's Store · 35 Goshen · 2, 12, 16 H Hecht, Sue Whipple · 17, 36 Longwood College · 44 Heffelfinger, Grace · 36 Heffelfinger, Jen · 26, 36 Heffelfinger, Steve · 36 Huffman's Filling Station · 4 Huffman's Store · 19 L Lunsford, Doris · 25 M Matheney, Harve · 37 Mays Mill · 34 McClung’s Mill · 34 McCormick, Margaret · 32 McLaughlin, Dr. Henry New Providence Minister · 21 McNutt Family · 15 Morris, Mamie · 9, 11 N New Providence Presbyterian Church · 5, 7, 12, 20 P Penick, Mary Monroe · 37 Pleasants Family · 35 Pleasants, Ada · 34 Porter, Susan · 38 R Roads, paved · 3 S Skunks · 10 Supinger, Bob · 4, 9 Supinger's Store · 19 Swope, Donnie · 36 Swope, Joyce · 36 T Taylor, Dr. Brownsburg Doctor · 7, 41 Telephone Exchange · 13 Trimmer, Ocie · 10, 17, 45 Troxell, Clint · 38 W Wade, Amelia · 39 Wade, Jane · 25 Wade, John · 36 Wade, Kate · 36 Wade, Margaret · 36 Wade, Mary · 36 Walker, Zachariah · 8 Whipple, David · 13 Whipple, Douglas · 18 Whipple, Fred · 3, 13, 16 Augusta Military Academy · 18 Bank President · 25 Dairy Farmer · 16 Dogs · 23 Family · 28 Jury Duty · 24 Military Service · 16 Sheep Farmer · 23 Whipple, Fred Jr. · 16, 36 Virginia Tech · 30 Whipple, Mollie Sue Child care · 17 Courtship · 18 Goshen Childhood · 2 Marriage in 1940 · 3 Organist · 20 Pianist at Asbury UMC · 20 Sports · 1 Teacher · 2, 17, 21 Whipple, Robert · 29 Whipple's Store · 4, 28 Whitesell's Store · 4, 19 Williams, Dr. Joseph · 7 Brownsburg Doctor · 41 World War II Farm Machinery Repair · 28