January 2008 Interview with Ann Swisher Beard by Margaret Skovira [Text enclosed in brackets [ ] is not on the audio, but is included here for clarification] Margaret Skovira: I'm at the home of Ann Beard (3475 Brownsburg Turnpike), near Brownsburg, Virginia, and we're recording an oral interview with her. Ann, would you please tell me your full name? Ann Beard: Frances Ann Swisher Beard. Margaret Skovira: And how long have you lived in Brownsburg, or in the Brownsburg area? Ann Beard: All my life. Margaret Skovira: Thank you. Were you born in Brownsburg? Ann Beard: I was born right outside of Brownsburg in what is now Davis Hill Road. It used to be all one road to Rockbridge Baths. And then I lived in what is now known as Dry Hollow Road. Margaret Skovira: This was your family. Ann Beard: Mm-hmm. Margaret Skovira: You were born in a house, not in a hospital. Ann Beard: Not in a hospital. All of us were born-- there was nine of us, and all were born at home except the last one. She was born in the hospital. Margaret Skovira: And when were you born? Ann Beard: Nineteen thirty-three. Margaret Skovira: And your mother's name was? Ann Beard: Eartha Wade Swisher. Margaret Skovira: She was a Wade originally. And your father? Ann Beard: John Henry Swisher. Margaret Skovira: When did you move to the house that we're in now [3475 Brownsburg Turnpike]? Ann Beard: This house? 1968. Margaret Skovira: So you grew up in those other two homes in the area? Ann Beard: Well, then I got married and moved to Lexington for eight years. Then we went to move to Rockbridge Baths near Goshen Pass for about five years. And then we moved here. Margaret Skovira: Alright. So you've lived all round the area. You know the area really well. You had eight brothers and sisters. Are many of them still in the area? Ann Beard: I have two sisters in Brownsburg. And one brother that lives beside me, and then I have a brother in New Hope, and my sister in Washington. Margaret Skovira: Will you tell me your sisters’ names who lives in Brownsburg? Ann Beard: Jo [Swisher] Heath and Emily [Swisher] Tillery. Margaret Skovira: And your brother who lives next door [3569 Brownsburg Turnpike]? Ann Beard: John Swisher. Margaret Skovira: Alright. How many generations of your family lived in this area before your parents? Ann Beard: I think-- Margaret Skovira: Your grandparents lived here? Ann Beard: My grandparents lived here. If it went any further back, I don't know. My grandparents just-- my granddaddy died the spring before I was born. Margaret Skovira: What was his name? Ann Beard: Love Wade. Margaret Skovira: Do you know his wife's name? Ann Beard: Virginia. Margaret Skovira: Any idea what her maiden name was? Ann Beard: She was a Swisher. Married a Wade. Then mom was a Wade and married a Swisher. All our kin is Swishers and Wades. My dad came from Newport. He was born and raised in Newport. Margaret Skovira: Is that a Scots-Irish name, Swisher? Ann Beard: German. Margaret Skovira: German. And the Wade is? Ann Beard: I don’t know. Margaret Skovira: You don't know. Any other grandparents? Ann Beard: George Washington Swisher was my granddaddy on my dad's side. Margaret Skovira: That's okay. I'm going to stop again and listen to this. Ann has found some pictures of her grandparents and she's going to tell us their names and when they were born. Ann Beard: My dad's dad was George Washington Swisher. He was born August of 1964, I mean 1864. He died in 1946. And his wife, Minnie Bell Lucas Swisher, was born in April of 1867. She died November 10th, 1937. My mother's dad was Harrison Love Wade, born in April of 1858, and he died in April 3rd, 1932, which was before I was born. And Virginia Catherine Swisher Wade was born October 23rd, 1862, and she died March 8th, 1940. Margaret Skovira: That's very nice that you have those pictures. And these all lived in the general area of Brownsburg? Ann Beard: My daddy, up until he was married, lived in Newport. Margaret Skovira: Which is just a few miles away. Ann Beard: Five miles. Margaret Skovira: Five miles from where we are now. Ann Beard: Mm-hmm. Margaret Skovira: It's interesting to have all those roots in this area. Do you know why they settled here in Brownsburg? Do you have any idea about that? Ann Beard: Well, back in those days, people didn't move around very much. They got a job and they just stayed with it. Margaret Skovira: Were they farmers? Ann Beard: Farmers. Margaret Skovira: So they all farmed in this general area. Ann Beard: In the general area, yes. Margaret Skovira: Wheat, cattle? Ann Beard: Wheat, cattle. They had cows, not a dairy, but they had cows that they milked and sold the milk and cream. They also raised hogs and chickens, everything that you need to eat. We raised the wheat and took it to the mill and had it ground to flour. The only thing you really had to buy was coffee, sugar, and tea. Margaret Skovira: Which mill did you go to? Ann Beard: We went sometimes to Wade's Mill over here [Kennedy Wade’s Mill Loop], and sometimes we went to Harold Wade's Mill down on Hays Creek [803 Hays Creek Road]. Margaret Skovira: So when you came back-- you said you lived in Lexington, and then you moved back here, was that after you were married Ann Beard: Yes. I lived here until I got married. Margaret Skovira: You went to Lexington because? Ann Beard: My husband worked at VMI and I worked for VPI Extension Service. Margaret Skovira: You came back here, what brought you back here? Ann Beard: We had our second child, and the house at Rockbridge Baths was small. So we decided we wanted to get away and back to his farm. So we put our house on the market, not thinking that it would sell like it did. Of course, it was right at the beginning of Goshen Pass, right on the river. It sold right off, and they said, "You've got 30 days to get out." So that's when we moved to this house. And, of course, Donnie's family lived right across from the New Providence church. They ran a dairy, so he helped with the dairy. Margaret Skovira: And you've been here ever since. Ann Beard: Been here ever since. Margaret Skovira: Well let’s back up. That was in '68, right? Ann Beard: Right. Margaret Skovira: You told me when you came back here. But let's back up to right after you were born. What do you remember about your early life when you were a young child? Ann Beard: I don't remember too much about early, before I started to school. It's sort of vague. Just what I've heard. But one thing, when I was in first grade, Anne Buchanan [McCorkle] was going to carry the crown. She was the queen at Brownsburg High School, for the May Day parade. She came into the first grade to pick somebody to carry her crown, and I was the one. So I remember that. Margaret Skovira: I guess so. Ann Beard: I remember all my teachers at Brownsburg. Margaret Skovira: You went to the Brownsburg school? Ann Beard: All 12 years. Margaret Skovira: All 12 years. Well tell us about it. What was it like? Ann Beard: I loved school, I always did. I had some great teachers, and I had some that was kind of different. I had a teacher in second grade, Mrs. Roebush and every day she would make everybody get up and instead of a spelling bee to set you down, she made you use a book on top of your head to improve your posture. If the book fell, you had to sit down. So it was the one that carried the book, just like the spelling bee, only it was carry their book on their head. But it did make you stand up straight. Margaret Skovira: What subjects do you remember liking in school, or disliking? Ann Beard: The one I disliked the most was chemistry. Margaret Skovira: This was high school. Ann Beard: This was high school. Now grade school, it didn't make any difference. I ended up being salutatorian at school in my senior year. Margaret Skovira: What year did you graduate? Ann Beard: In 1952. Margaret Skovira: Now I know you played basketball, because somebody told me that. Tell me about the basketball team. Ann Beard: Well, in eighth grade, I was a cheerleader, because you couldn't play ball, so I was cheerleader for that year. Then I played first string for four years, and I was basketball queen in my senior year. We won three district champions. I have the basketball. Back then, they gave you a gold basketball. I don’t mean brass. It was a gold basketball with "champion" and the year on it. We got three. Margaret Skovira: Three out of the four years you were in high school? My goodness. What is a basketball queen? Ann Beard: They put three people, three boys and three girls, and they had a jar. People voted on you, a penny a vote. Whoever got the most money was the king and queen. And Harold Sandridge that lived out in Dutch Hollow, he was the king of basketball. Margaret Skovira: You had a dance or something where you were the king and queen? Ann Beard: Yeah. They crowned you at the last basketball game. Margaret Skovira: Congratulations. Sounds like quite an honor. Ann Beard: Then I sang in the Glee Club. I won quite a few honors the last of school. Home economics and citizenship. I can't remember what else. Margaret Skovira: Any other highlights of your years in school that you can think of? Did you get in any trouble? Doesn’t sound like you did. Ann Beard: No. I was a-- we had a principal that was really strict, I mean really strict. Miss Ocie Trimmer. You've probably heard that in some of the other interviews. Margaret Skovira: I have. Ann Beard: And you didn't dare get in trouble, because if you did, there were no two ways about getting a good spanking. Margaret Skovira: Really? Corporal punishment. Ann Beard: Yes. So you didn't. Everybody was scared to death of her. So you just didn't get in trouble. Every morning, unless it was pouring rain, everybody went down the front of the Brownsburg School before school, and lined up. We had them by grades, and had 15 minutes of calisthenics. And the only way you could get out of that was have a doctor's excuse. Then we marched back into the school. Margaret Skovira: This is the entire school? Ann Beard: This is the entire school from first grade through seniors. Margaret Skovira: And was she the principal, Miss Trimmer, was she the principal of the entire school, not just the high school? Ann Beard: No. It was all one school. The first four grades were downstairs, and the first four years of high school was upstairs. Then the rest of them was in what was the stucco building [agriculture building], what's still standing. One other thing I really enjoyed, at lunchtime, somebody had to-- well, between every period, somebody rang the bell. And for the last three years in high school, I rang the bell. Sometimes, if we needed to go somewhere, somebody would bribe me to ring the bell a few minutes early, or let it run over a little bit [laughter]. Margaret Skovira: It sounds like a lot of fun. Ann Beard: It was a lot of fun. Back then, if it snowed, the bus wouldn't like come through right where we lived, because there's a big embankment. And back then, there was no guard rails. So if it was real bad, you couldn't come through that; you walked. So we walked across the hills. It was a mile across the hill. Margaret Skovira: To walk to the school. And who was the bus driver for you? Ann Beard: It was my uncle, Bud Wade. Margaret Skovira: The man with the barber shop. Ann Beard: Mm-hmm. Margaret Skovira: After you finished high school, what did you do? Ann Beard: I went to the Dunsmore Business College. Margaret Skovira: Where is that? Ann Beard: Staunton. Margaret Skovira: How many years was that? Ann Beard: It was only a year and a half. Margaret Skovira: Did you commute from here? Ann Beard: No. I lived in Staunton. Margaret Skovira: You lived in Staunton while you were doing that. Ann Beard: I lived in Staunton. Donnie, my boyfriend, he would take me back on Sunday night, and Dad carried for the creamery, gathered up cream and took it to the creamery in Staunton. So I'd come home with him on Friday evening and Donnie would take me back on a Sunday. Margaret Skovira: And Donnie is Donnie Beard who you ultimately married. Ann Beard: Yes. Margaret Skovira: So your father was doing the milking at this time still? Ann Beard: That was-- he did it two days a week. He used to do that. Margaret Skovira: What else did he do? Ann Beard: He did some farming, and he was a custom sheep shearer. So other times, he'd just work around. Sometimes he'd work on the road, on the highway. Margaret Skovira: Tell me about sheep shearing. Where did that take him? Were there lots of sheep? Ann Beard: Oh yes. He started in-- about the last of March, and he'd finish up in June. He sheared everybody's sheep. Margaret Skovira: In this area? There were enough sheep in this area? Ann Beard: Oh yes, every day. He'd do them every day. And there's not any sheep that are sheared now in this area except Pat Patterson’s [3334 Brownsburg Turnpike]. Back then you did it by hand. It wasn't electric. Margaret Skovira: You had those clippers. Ann Beard: Well, you had the clippers, but then you had to have someone to turn the shears to get power to the clippers. Margaret Skovira: So they were power driven. Ann Beard: Yeah. Margaret Skovira: But it was hand-- Ann Beard: By man. Back then, people didn't have electricity in barns. They were lucky to have it in their house. Margaret Skovira: Did you always have electricity in your homes? Ann Beard: Yeah. Margaret Skovira: I would think so. Ann Beard: We always had running water and a bathroom, which a lot of people didn’t have. Margaret Skovira: What about your telephone? Ann Beard: Well, we had, our telephone we had, as long as I can remember, we had a telephone. It was one of those crank things on the wall. You'd call the operator in Brownsburg and say, "Give me four shorts on eight, or two shorts on nine or whatever it might be." Margaret Skovira: So that's how you knew people's numbers? Ann Beard: Mm-hmm. Margaret Skovira: Could you tell her who you wanted to call, and she knew? Ann Beard: Yes, she knew that too. If you didn't know their number, you'd just tell her who you wanted to call. That was Miss Ocie [Supinger]. She came when I was eight And I can remember one time, we was concerned about Mom. She'd gone somewhere and she hadn't gotten home. So we called the operator and told her we were concerned. And she said, "Oh don't worry. She's on her way home. I just saw her go by." So they kept up with everything. Margaret Skovira: Since you rode the bus to school, after school you came home on the bus. Were there children around to play with? Did you have neighbors? Ann Beard: We had neighbors, but by the time you get your homework and your chores, you didn't do much playing. Margaret Skovira: What were your chores? Ann Beard: Well, I had to milk cows. My sisters had to get in the wood, coal, whatever we were using at the time. And you’d get done, we just didn't have time. Now on Saturdays and Sundays you played, and we did have neighbors on both sides. Margaret Skovira: What kinds of things did you do on Saturday? Do you remember? Ann Beard: Well, in the house, that was the day that you would so things to get ready for Sunday. We did a lot of ball playing. Margaret Skovira: Baseball? Did you have a basketball hoop? Ann Beard: No. We didn't have that at home. Just baseball. Margaret Skovira: Where did you go to church? Ann Beard: I went to Bethesda in Rockridge Baths and McElwee Chapel when I was growing up. After we got married-- when I got married, I moved my membership to New Providence and I’ve been there ever since. Margaret Skovira: Any memories of any of those churches in terms of the community life? Ann Beard: We went to Bible School at Bethesda. Well, the bus ran part of way, then we had to walk the rest. It didn't come around and pick up everybody. So we just loved going to Bible School. Margaret Skovira: Was this a summer Bible School? Ann Beard: Mm-hmm. Margaret Skovira: The vacation Bible School. Ann Beard: It started at 9:00 and we got out at 12:00. Then we went back, as a kid we would go to-- all the church would take the buses, and we'd take them out to Cave Mountain Lake for picnics. They took us to Lakeside several times, an amusement park in Roanoke, or Salem, actually. Margaret Skovira: Was Donnie in your class in school? Ann Beard: No, he was two grades ahead of me. He graduated in '50, 1950, and I graduated in '52. But I started going with him when I was in the eighth grade. Margaret Skovira: What did he do after he graduated? Ann Beard: He went to Bridgewater College and graduated from there. Then he came back and he was, of course, at that time of draft age. So nobody would hire him. Margaret Skovira: This is the Korean War period. Ann Beard: Yeah. Margaret Skovira: So nobody would hire him. Ann Beard: Nobody would hire him because they figured if they hired him, then he’d be called. So we got married in July, and in September, he went to the Draft Board and told them get wanted to get called, because he couldn't get a job and couldn’t get on with his life until he knew whether or not, so he left in October. Went to McCrum’s to get the bus to take him to the examiner. All thoughts were that if he passed he would go on, but he failed the exam, so he was back that night, so within a week, he had a job. Margaret Skovira: Ann Beard: Men were scarce. Margaret Skovira: What year was this that you got married? Ann Beard: Nineteen fifty-four. Margaret Skovira: Fifty-four. So did you expect to see him come home that night? Ann Beard: No. Margaret Skovira: Was it a surprise? Ann Beard: It was a real surprise. Margaret Skovira: I guess. Ann Beard: Yes. But that's the way they did all of them back then. You didn't go, come back and then they'd tell you whether or not you'd passed. You went, and if you passed, you went out. And that's the reason we left the farm, the big farm. I had two brothers. Well, I had three brothers, but John was too young. He wasn't much help. I had two brothers, and this was back in World War II. They called them both the same day. So when they got their notices, Dad said, “Well what are we going to do with the farm because I can’t manage it by myself?” So they took one, never came home. Margaret Skovira: And which farm was this? Where were you living at that time? Ann Beard: We lived three years on the farm, up here where Jack Heslep owns [West Airslie Farm]. It was just Dad and the two boys. It was a good farm, but you can’t farm without help. Margaret Skovira: So that was the effect of the war on your family. And where did your family go then? Ann Beard: That's when we moved to Dry Hollow. Margaret Skovira: That's when you moved. Your father did some farming? Ann Beard: The place that we lived had 28 acres. We just kept a few cows and hogs and things like that. Put up a little bit of hay, but not much. Margaret Skovira: Do you remember anything about the brother when he was in the Army during the war? Do you remember any of that? Ann Beard: Oh yeah. Margaret Skovira: What was that like? Ann Beard: Well, I had two brothers, but they were married. John went after. He went to the Korean War. Lewis that lived in Brownsburg, he was in World War II, married but he had to go. I remember Henry, he was the one that was on the farm. Of course, back then, everything was censored. You couldn't tell anybody where you were. So he was in the Seabees and he would write home and he would put "Henry P. Swisher" up in the corner. The next was "Henry E. Swisher." So he told us he was in Pearl Harbor. Margaret Skovira: So he survived Pearl Harbor, or he went there after? Ann Beard: Well, they went in before the soldiers went in, Seabees did. He didn't never talk much about it at all. He said that anybody who really saw things were not going to talk about it. Margaret Skovira: What was it like here? Do you remember ration cards, or did it really matter when you were living on the farm? Ann Beard: They rationed sugar and they rationed gas. Margaret Skovira: Gas. Did you need gas for tractors and that kind of thing? Ann Beard: No, we didn't have a tractor. We used gas for trucks for Dad to gather the cream and go to work. Margaret Skovira: That's just the timer. It still seems to be running. Ann Beard: I do want to tell you one-- I'll tell you that when we talk about the Brownsburg. Margaret Skovira: Let me ask you this: you didn't have a tractor and your father had a truck. Did he have a car as well? Ann Beard: No. We only had a truck, at that time. Later on we got a car. Margaret Skovira: But originally, if your parents went somewhere, did they take the kids? Were you spread out? How many of you could get in the truck? Ann Beard: Well, when you were little, a lot could get in the truck. We just sat on other people's laps and the rest of them rode on the back. Margaret Skovira: Of the nine, where are you in the group? Ann Beard: Next to the youngest. Margaret Skovira: Next to the youngest. So you would have been one sitting on a lap. Ann Beard: Right. Now my brother had a car, but he was courting and so we didn't use it. [laughs] But then later, we got a car. Margaret Skovira: Anything about your brothers and sisters that stands out in your mind, that’s interesting about things they did? Ann Beard: Well, I remember my brother, Henry. He had a dog, and he was going somewhere. The dog was down on the floor, and he would stand up to do something, the dog would get up, follow the car. Margaret Skovira: Oh dear. Ann Beard: One thing back then, on Thanksgiving Day, it was always butchering day. And the neighbors would get together and butcher all these hogs. Margaret Skovira: On Thanksgiving Day? Ann Beard: Oh yeah. That was just something that everybody did back then. Margaret Skovira: What did you do with the meat? Ann Beard: Well you see back then, winters were quite different around here then. They were cold. You would hang the meat, sugar cure the hams and shoulders and hang them in the smoke house. We made lard, we made pon hoss, scrapple, and all those things. It was so cold, you didn't have to put things in the refrigerator. Margaret Skovira: So you would eat that during the winter. Ann Beard: Well when spring came, the hams and shoulders if you had any left, they would keep after they were cured for a long time. But we'd kill hogs and it was a lot of work because you had to dip them in that hot water and scrape the hair off of them. It was quite an ordeal. Margaret Skovira: And you did it Thanksgiving Day. Did you have a traditional Thanksgiving dinner that day? Ann Beard: No. Well, yeah, you always had when it's a lot of people around. Margaret Skovira: Did you have turkey? Ann Beard: No. Margaret Skovira: Just had a big meal? Ann Beard: Had a big meal. The neighbors would come in and butcher their hogs. One reason that they did it was, nobody was working on Thanksgiving Day, so that was the time to get together and do it. Margaret Skovira: So did they bring all the hogs to one place? Ann Beard: Not everybody, but a couple of neighbors would bring their hogs. Margaret Skovira: Did you try to keep track of whose was whose? Ann Beard: They knew whose was whose. Margaret Skovira: Who were your neighbors at that time? Ann Beard: Bert Fitzgerald lived right below us and Claude Bare, which was Tommy Bare’s daddy, you probably know him. Margaret Skovira: I know the name. Ann Beard: Claude Bare was his daddy. And then on the other side of us was Henry Powell [?]. Margaret Skovira: What do you remember about the stores and the community right in Brownsburg? Ann Beard: Well, back then we had three stores and the farm store-- Margaret Skovira: Was that the Co-op [Rockbridge Farmer’s Co-op]? Ann Beard: Co-op, yeah [8 Hays Creek Road]. And a funeral home [2664 Brownsburg Turnpike]. And I can remember, when I was a kid, I must have been in the third or fourth grade, Miley Whitesell had the funeral home it was John Layton’s [Whitesell]. Well, it was during World War II. Rufus Harris's [ph?] son was killed one day, and they brought his body back to John Layton’s [Whitesell]. Margaret Skovira: He was killed in the war. Ann Beard: Yes. They shipped his body back. I can remember that John Layton had a-- Margaret Skovira: We were talking about the Harris boy who died in the war and his body being brought back for burial. Ann Beard: They put him in the funeral home, and a soldier stood at the foot and one at the head of the casket. It could not be opened. It was a casket with a flag draped over. You didn't know whether it was his body or somebody else's body because you wasn't allowed to look. That was weird to me at that time. Margaret Skovira: You were used to a casket being open. Ann Beard: Yes. Margaret Skovira: And where was he buried then? Ann Beard: He was buried in the colored cemetery, where it is today, where it has been. Margaret Skovira: I don’t know where that is. Ann Beard: Do you know where Betty Brown lives? Margaret Skovira: Yes. Ann Beard: Turn in by her house, it's right across up street. Margaret Skovira: I didn't realize that. Nobody's mentioned the cemetery. Ann Beard: Nobody's mentioned the cemetery? Margaret Skovira: No. Ann Beard: Oh yeah. Margaret Skovira: I'll have to learn more about that. Ann Beard: Then you had the cannery. Margaret Skovira: I've heard of the cannery. What did they can? Ann Beard: Everything. Corn, tomatoes, and they did it in tin cans. You took to the cannery, took whatever you was carrying, apples, anything. You'd fix the can for them. There was a lady, Ruth Hogshead, Ed Patterson's sister, ran it. They would seal the cans for you, because it took a big machine to seal the can. Then they dropped those cans down in hot water in a big pressure cooker and cooked them whatever time they're supposed to be. Margaret Skovira: So they were canning your things for you. Ann Beard: No, you canned them. All they did was seal them. You bought the cans and you did all the work. I remember many a time, going in there and shucking corn, silking it to cut off. Margaret Skovira: But you would take your stuff down there to work on it. Ann Beard: That’s just what people would do. Margaret Skovira: For goodness sake. Ann Beard: And before it was a cannery, it was a colored school. Margaret Skovira: Oh, same building? And that's gone now, right? Ann Beard: Yes. It was in that little lot, between where they're working on the log house now [2763 Brownsburg Turnpike], and Janis [Ayres] house [Old School Lane]. Margaret Skovira: Which is called Old School Road or something. Ann Beard: Yeah. Margaret Skovira: In your memory, it was all the cannery. It was not the colored school. Ann Beard: No, no, I remember the colored school. Margaret Skovira: You do remember. Ann Beard: After that, they rode a bus to Lexington. Margaret Skovira: This would have been while you were in school that that change happened? Did you know any of the children who went to a colored school? Ann Beard: Oh yeah. They were just-- people in Brownsburg just like the whites. Margaret Skovira: They just went to a different school. Ann Beard: They just went to a different school. Margaret Skovira: And you didn't really think much about that? That's the way it was? Ann Beard: That's just the way it was. You played with your neighbor. I remember this little house down here now [3569 Brownsburg Turnpike], Dan Franklin, he just died not long ago. His family lived down there in that little house all those brothers and sisters. The Beards would come down and Bud Martin had lived here [3475 Brownsburg Turnpike], Bud and Sid [Martin] lived here. They'd all go down and get in the creek. Margaret Skovira: Did that change any when the blacks had to be bused into Lexington? Did you still know them just as well? Ann Beard: No, no. Didn't see as much of them. They left early in the mornings. Margaret Skovira: So that changed it a little. Do you know when that was? Ann Beard: I don’t remember. I don't remember what year. Before I was in grade school. Margaret Skovira: That gives us an idea. What else about Brownsburg? I wanted to go back. The funeral home you said was Molly--? Ann Beard: Miley L. Whitesell, John Layton's father. Margaret Skovira: I thought it was a woman's name. What was the first name? Ann Beard: Miley, M-I-L-E-Y. Margaret Skovira: Oh, Miley, okay. Ann Beard: Miley L. Whitesell. Margaret Skovira: That was his father. Ann Beard: Back then he was known as M L Whitesell. And John Layton, then he took it over. He was a bus driver. Then he opened a store and Post Office. Margaret Skovira: Where he lives now? Ann Beard: Yes [2664 Brownsburg Turnpike] Then there was the bank and the telephone office [2711 Brownsburg Turnpike]. And the blacksmith's shop – Walter Potter owned the blacksmith's shop, across from where Betty Brown lives; where the Beverages live [2610 Brownsburg Turnpike]. And then we had a shoe repair place. It was behind the Co-op, the farm store. And he had a trailer and fixed shoes, and he lived in that trailer. Had many a pair of shoes fixed there. Harve Matheny. Margaret Skovira: Matheny, okay. Ann Beard: Yeah, Harve Matheny. And then right across from that was Pete Carwell’s auto shop, repair shop. So we had just about everything. Margaret Skovira: You did, yes. Ann Beard: Of course, we had a doctor, too. I remember when I was in the first grade, had a fall. They took me to the hospital, which was in Lexington. Then I had to go to Dr. Williams, Dr. Joe. Williams was the doctor, and he had his offices in the basement where Ag Patterson lives now [2744 Brownsburg Turnpike]. I went to him every day, Sunday and everything, from 4th of July until Christmas to bandage my hand. Margaret Skovira: Every day. Ann Beard: Somebody had to take me over there. Margaret Skovira: How did you hurt your hand? Ann Beard: They were putting up hay, and I saw my brother – back then you put a hay fork down in the hay on the wagon. And then the horse would pull the rope, that would flip to the hay fork. They'd pull the hay up into the mow, and then they'd drop it. I saw my brother stop the rope. But I didn't realize. He stopped it when the horse was coming back in, which was I tried to stop it when he was pulling against it. I had both hands up to my elbows bandaged. Margaret Skovira: So it was like a rope burn? Ann Beard: Oh, this took all the skin. My hand still has the scar now. But it took all the meat. One brother, Harry, he jumped over top of the wagon to get me when it happened. Margaret Skovira: Goodness. Ann Beard: Farm life is exciting. Margaret Skovira: And also dangerous. We all know that. Ann Beard: Sure. Then Dr. Taylor came to Brownsburg. He had his offices near the farm store, upstairs. Upstairs in Dick Barnes’ house [8 Hays Creek Road] is where he had his offices. The farm store was behind; it went clear back. Margaret Skovira: More than is there now. Ann Beard: Oh, yes, clear back to where you go up to Bob Driver’s [22 Hays Creek Road]. There was a lot of buildings. That's where he had his offices. Margaret Skovira: When did Brownsburg start losing these businesses? Ann Beard: It hasn’t been that long, really. John Layton's store [Whitesell’s Store 2664 Brownsburg Turnpike] hasn't been closed down long. Of course, Walter Potter, the blacksmith, when he died, that was it. The same way with the shoe repair. Pete Carwell, his garage stayed open till I was in high school. Huffman’s Store [2712 Brownsburg Turnpike] it stayed open until long after I was married. And, of course, the one on the corner was Supinger’s Store and then it was Swope’s Store. Margaret Skovira: Which corner is this? Ann Beard: Where Dick Barnes has his antique shop [2721 Brownsburg Turnpike]. . That was Bob Supinger’s store. Then it went to Swope’s. Carl Swope. And the farm store, it closed-- I just vaguely remember it. Margaret Skovira: So it was kind of gradual. Ann Beard: It was gradual, there wasn’t anything big at one time. And the telephone company, when they upgraded things. But it was still in operation way after I graduated from high school. Margaret Skovira: Actually, it's still there. It just doesn't require people, I guess. Ann Beard: No, it was up over the bank. So it was upstairs over the bank as recall.. Margaret Skovira: That's a private home now. Ann Beard: Right. But it closed long before the bank did. It just sat there as an empty building for a while. And, of course, the barber shop was next. Margaret Skovira: So did the barber shop close when Bud Wade stopped cutting hair? Ann Beard: He cut hair for a long time. Then it was converted into a pool room. Mc Sterrett and Fred Whipple and all of them played pool. It hasn’t been gone that long. Margaret Skovira: They all played pool there? Ann Beard: Yeah, they had a pool table back there. That's where they played pool in the wintertime. Margaret Skovira: Did you ever go, or was it men only? Ann Beard: It was men only. [Laughter] I guess they wouldn't have run you out, but none of the women ever went there anyway. Margaret Skovira: Did your husband ever go there? Ann Beard: Oh yeah. Margaret Skovira: Did he tell you stories about it? Ann Beard: No, but you know how men are; they just hear this talk all the time. Margaret Skovira: This question about good or bad changes that have taken place in Brownsburg, are you aware of anything? Ann Beard: All the businesses that are gone. Most of the people that lived in Brownsburg have gone. And now it's a weekend home for most of them. More houses are getting to be weekend homes. So you really don't know the people. When they lived there all the time, you knew everybody. But the one bad thing about Brownsburg, they took the school away. Margaret Skovira: That was not that long ago. Ann Beard: No, it hasn't been that long. They tore it down. It was built in 1938, the new brick building. No, it hasn't been all that long. Margaret Skovira: It seems to me it was in the '90s sometime. Ann Beard: Yeah, I don't know when they closed, I don't know exactly. But my kids, they still went to grade school there, and then went to high school at Rockbridge. Margaret Skovira: They went to high school where the middle school is now [1200 Sterrett Road]? Ann Beard: It was Rockridge High School. Margaret Skovira: When your kids went to the Brownsburg school, was it different from when you'd gone there? Miss Trimmer certainly wasn’t still there. Ann Beard: No, she wasn't. And Dan Burger, he came after Miss Trimmer. We called him Preppy Dan, because he was a man, he'd appear and you didn't know where he'd come from. He was so quiet. You didn't realize he was behind you. Then they had several after I’d graduated that I didn't know, because I moved to Lexington. Margaret Skovira: But you might have known them when your children were there? Ann Beard: I knew all of them when my kids were there. Robbie started school with Mrs. [Mollie Sue] Whipple and he finished the seventh grade and moved to Rockbridge. That was her last year at school. Margaret Skovira: Mollie Sue Whipple. Ann Beard: Yeah. She started as Mollie Sue Hull. I missed her. Donnie had her in first grade. And then she quit for a year when Freddie was born, so I missed her. Margaret Skovira: That would have been your first grade year. And then she came back. Ann Beard: Yes. She taught-- well Robbie was in seventh grade the last year she taught. Margaret Skovira: Since you mentioned Robbie, tell us who your children are. Ann Beard: Well, Robbie, he was born in 1960. Trenton was born in 1968. And Robbie went to Brownsburg. Well, both of them went to Brownsburg until the seventh grade and then they went to Rockbridge High. Margaret Skovira: And they still live in this area, right? Ann Beard: Trenton, when we bought the manse, the New Providence manse [3882 Brownsburg Turnpike], and I think that was in 1976 I'd say when we bought the manse. My son and his wife – he married Jeannie Lyons – and they have three children, Christopher, Megan and Kathleen. They live there. And Robbie married a girl from Michigan, and they live over on Goose Creek Road. They bought a place over there, His wife is Patty. They have two children, Eliza and Hannah. Margaret Skovira: And you have a fair amount of farm equipment here, so that belongs to whom? Ann Beard: It belongs to me and John. Margaret Skovira: That's your brother. So John's still working? Ann Beard: John doesn't-- he's not able to do anything. My two boys work do all the farming. We own about 350 acres. Part of it’s rented, though. Margaret Skovira: Are they full time farmers, or do they have other jobs too? Ann Beard: Both have full time jobs, and the farming's on the side. Margaret Skovira: That's the way you have to do it these days, isn't it. Ann Beard: That's the way you've got to do it these days. But they've gotten four wheel drive tractors and they can unroll the hay with the tractor on a truck. You don't have to put it in square bales and do it all by hand now. And with the round bales, it's so much easier to get it baled and everything. Margaret Skovira: When we first came here, we would see it, and it must have been your boys baling square bales up on that hill. I loved to watch them, shooting those square bales out, but they don’t do that any more. Ann Beard: Not any more. Since both of them are working, they don’t have time. And that's hard work. Everybody has gone to round bales. Margaret Skovira: Yeah, I've noticed. Let's see. Can you think of anything, the most significant or important event that might have occurred in Brownsburg in your lifetime? Somebody told me there was a murder. Ann Beard: Oh yes. Margaret Skovira: Tell me about the murder. Ann Beard: There was a murder in the building, the stucco building that's in Brownsburg now. That was the Miller murder and I don't know-- Margaret Skovira: That's his name, Miller? Ann Beard: No, that was one of the ones that was involved. Two or three people was killed up there in the courtroom upstairs. There was two, three, a doctor. I don't know enough about that to talk about it. Margaret Skovira: Did that happen while you were growing up? Ann Beard: No, that happened before. I'd read the story, but I didn't know the people. But I know that it was-- one of the Millers was kin to Mr. Beard but he never, never did talk about it. If you'd ask him, he wouldn't answer you. Margaret Skovira: Really? This is your father-in-law? Ann Beard: Yeah. He wouldn't talk about it. In 1903, my mother's brother, John Wade, and his friend, Arthur Blackwell was coming up in front of what is now the post office. They were mistaken for somebody else and killed them both. Margaret Skovira: Were the people ever caught? Ann Beard: They knew who it was, but nothing was ever done. Margaret Skovira: Really? You said there was a courtroom? Ann Beard: Yeah. Margaret Skovira: And what kind of court was that? Ann Beard: Well, I don’t know if you'd call it a criminal court. I guess that's what you'd call it. Margaret Skovira: So they tried cases in this courtroom? Ann Beard: Yeah, judge was up there. They had lawyers. Margaret Skovira: Is this something you remember or it was-- Ann Beard: I know where it was. Margaret Skovira: When you said the stucco building, I'm trying to-- Ann Beard: That's the one it's at now. Margaret Skovira: I'm trying to picture which one that is. Ann Beard: It's the only one that’s there now. It's stucco. Margaret Skovira: I'll pay attention. Ann Beard: And there's fire escapes coming down-- well, when I was in school-- Margaret Skovira: Oh, up by the school. Ann Beard: Yeah. Margaret Skovira: Okay. And there was a courtroom up there. Ann Beard: Uh-huh. And then there was a colored guy who murdered in Brownsburg. He went to prison. He wasn’t killed, he killed a Whipple boy. Margaret Skovira: A relative of Mollie Sue’s [Whipple]? Ann Beard: Of course, back then, coloreds weren't-- a white could do whatever they wanted, but coloreds couldn’t. Margaret Skovira: And this was within your memory or before? Ann Beard: No, all this is before. Margaret Skovira: This is all things you've been told about. Ann Beard: Well I know Saturday night at John Layton's used to be the-- between John Layton's and Huffman’s Store and Bob Supinger’s, that was the highlight of the week. People went to buy their groceries, kids went to play, sleighride. Sometimes the women went, but most of the time, it was just the men and kids. That was the highlight of the week when you was a kid. Margaret Skovira: This was Saturday? Ann Beard: Saturday night. Margaret Skovira: Saturday night. So did your father take a million kids? Ann Beard: All of us. We used to always go on a Saturday night, and you got a nickel. And you had to be very careful what you spent it on. Of course, you could get a lot of things for a nickel back then, but you had to decide whether you wanted a drink or candy or what, but you didn’t get but one nickel. That was your allowance for the week. Margaret Skovira: What did you do on Christmas in your family? Did you celebrate Christmas? Did you go to your grandparents? Ann Beard: See, my grandparents were dead. We celebrated Christmas, and when Wade and Lewis got married, I was just real young when they got married. All of them would come home. We'd have a big Christmas. You got one present and oranges and candy, but you didn't get a whole lot like the kids do now. Couldn't afford all that stuff. Margaret Skovira: Well some of the time, when you were very young, it was still the Depression in the United States, and people generally didn't have very much. Did you feel that? Did you feel like you didn't have much? Ann Beard: It didn't bother me, because everybody was in the same boat. Mom made our clothes, made all the clothes for the girls. She made our clothes, and we had a big garden, so we raised everything we ate. So you were just like everybody else. Didn't bother me. The one thing I do remember when I was a kid-- Margaret Skovira: I'll stop this. Anything else about the Depression? Ann Beard: I remember that, of course, Dad was working, and gypsies used to come around. They were scary. So one day, we saw them coming, and nobody in the house had told Mom. We went out the back door and went down and got in the spring house so that they couldn’t see us. But everybody was scared of the gypsies. Margaret Skovira: Where did they come from? Ann Beard: We didn't know. Margaret Skovira: They'd just show up? Ann Beard: They'd just show up. And they would steal. Everybody was afraid of them, from what they'd heard. We ran. I remember running from the gypsies. Margaret Skovira: One thing I didn't ask you much about, New Providence, or the other churches that you went to, before you became a member of New Providence. Do you have any memories of any of those? Ann Beard: As I said, going to Bible School, and all our picnics and things like that. Then I joined New Providence in 1954, and been there ever since. Margaret Skovira: You're pretty active there, right? Ann Beard: Yes. I've been an elder three or four times. I’ve been in a Circle, ever since I joined the church. Margaret Skovira: How many circles are there? Ann Beard: There used to be five, when I joined. When I joined, I joined the Night Circle because I worked during the day. A lot of them, the Church Circle, the Newport Circle, Whites Hill Circle, they were all day circles. If you worked, you'd do a Night Circle. So I'd been in that. There's only three now, and one of them is just about gone. Nobody goes. Margaret Skovira: But the Night Circle's still going? Ann Beard: Oh yeah. We have 15 members. That's about all we can have in the home, because they don’t like to meet in the church. It's too cold. You don't feel as comfortable in the church as you do in someone's home. Margaret Skovira: What does the circle do? Ann Beard: We help people in the community, and missionaries. And then we have a Bible study every week. We have a Christmas meeting where we bring a covered dish and eat together. In the summertime, we have a family picnic in June. But I remember, at New Providence they had the Chrysanthemum Show. Now that was a big deal. They made all kinds of money. Margaret Skovira: Was this the women that did this show? Ann Beard: The Women of the Church, yeah. And I remembered helping. You'd serve 500 or 600 people in the Fellowship Hall. They'd come and eat ___________ and they had-- the reason it was called the Chrysanthemum, the ladies would grow these beautiful chrysanthemums in buckets, and they would show them off at the chrysanthemum show. Margaret Skovira: So they'd bring them all to the church and that was their show. Now you said they grew them in buckets, or they bring the whole plant? Ann Beard: They brought the whole-- the bucket. Margaret Skovira: They didn't just cut off the finest specimens. Ann Beard: No, no, they got the whole plant. And they did handwork and would sell 50 percent shares. But the meals is what everybody loved. Margaret Skovira: And did they charge admission to the show? Ann Beard: Yes. Not admission. They just charged for the meals. Margaret Skovira: Charged for the meals and the things they sold. And this was a fundraiser. Ann Beard: A fundraiser. Margaret Skovira: How long did that go on? Ann Beard: That went on till about 19-- I guess about 1960. Margaret Skovira: So you might have grown some chrysanthemums? Ann Beard: No, I didn't grow the chrysanthemums, no. I know Mrs. Beard had a barrel that she put chamomile in, filled up with water. She watered her chrysanthemums. It was rain water, and she would water her chrysanthemums out of that barrel. That's why they were so pretty. Margaret Skovira: Interesting. Is there anything else about your family history that I should have asked about, or that you want to talk about? Ann Beard: Well, nothing really outstanding. Margaret Skovira: I didn't ask you what you did. You went to work in Lexington. Ann Beard: I worked for VPI Extension Service for 37 years. Margaret Skovira: You had a full career. Ann Beard: I retired there. I loved it. Margaret Skovira: And what did you do for them? Ann Beard: Everything. I worked with the 4H kids, and I would get up the demonstration materials for them. And the same thing with the women with the Home Demonstration Club. I’d cane chairs, paint the trays, I’d do the samples. Etching trays. All kinds of things like that. But I loved it, because you never done the same thing twice. And I worked with the farmers. I’d get feed rations for the dairymen. I’d go on the computer and go to Tech and tell them what I had and what I needed and they would send it back by computer. Margaret Skovira: So that's pretty current, pretty recent that you were doing that. Ann Beard: Yeah. Now they have had computers a long time. Because I know I didn't want to go to learn. Just had a typewriter. I told Al [Strecker], my boss, I said, "Al, it was a whole week of school at Tech--" Margaret Skovira: In Blacksburg? Margaret Skovira: All right. Continue about the computer training. [Long pause in the recording. Audio starts again at 1:04] Ann Beard: I came home and told Donnie that I didn't want to go and I didn't want to learn. He says, "If you're not going to keep up with the times, get out." That was all he said. So I went back the next morning, I told Al, I said, "I’d like to go to school." Margaret Skovira: He was right, wasn't he? Ann Beard: Right. He was right. So that's where I got my knowledge of computers. Margaret Skovira: Very good. What did Donnie do? You said he worked for VMI. Ann Beard: Donnie was controller at VMI, 35 years. Margaret Skovira: So you both worked-- Ann Beard: Complete rivals. VPI and VMI -- yeah, we both worked in town and we rode together. Margaret Skovira: What did you do with the children? Ann Beard: Well, I had a lady that kept Robbie from the time he was six weeks old. Today, well, Marshall's dead, but his wife, Ethel, kept him. He called her Mama Ethel all the time. They loved her. Still do. Margaret Skovira: What was her last name? Ann Beard: Swisher. No kin, but she lived in Lexington. She took Robbie. So Trenton came along, I told her I wasn't going back to work. I hadn't intended to go back to work. But when Trenton was four months old, I decided I was going back to work. So she took Trenton. Her girls were grown, well, not grown, but they were in high school. They'd call any time and say, "Can Trenton spend the weekend? We want to go to the movie. We want to do this." So he spent a lot of nights over there with them, and loved it. Margaret Skovira: Sounds perfect. Ann Beard: And when Donnie’s sister [Winifred] was killed in Arkansas, our nephew, in a car wreck, I called her and told her I had to go to Arkansas. She said, "Bring Trenton up here and don't worry about him." She says, "Don’t pick him up when you get home until things are straightened out." So he stayed for several days with her. Margaret Skovira: Sounds like you had a good arrangement. Ann Beard: Had a wonderful babysitter, wonderful. And they learned a lot, because she had them more than I did. She had them all day. They learned a lot from her. Margaret Skovira: What else should I have asked you that I haven't asked you about? Ann Beard: Nothing really. Margaret Skovira: Have we covered everything that you'd thought about before I came? Ann Beard: I think so. Margaret Skovira: Well, I'm going to thank you very much for participating in this oral interview project. We can talk again if you think of something else. Margaret Skovira: Ann has thought of another story to tell me. Ann Beard: There was a guy at New Providence that committed suicide. Back in those days, you weren't allowed to bury a person who had committed suicide in the cemetery. So they buried him outside the fence of the cemetery. When they tore the fence down, they put him inside of the cemetery, so he got inside the cemetery, whether he was supposed to or not. Margaret Skovira: When did he die? Ann Beard: There's no tombstone or anything, because they couldn't put up a tombstone. Margaret Skovira: Because he'd committed suicide. Ann Beard: Committed suicide. Margaret Skovira: But we know he's there now. Ann Beard: Yeah. We know he's there but I don't know his name. Everybody laughs about it. They wouldn't let him in the cemetery, but he's there now. And “The Captive of Abb’s Valley.” You’re aware of that? It's real interesting to go and see that tombstone that’s higher anything in the cemetery. Margaret Skovira: And this is at the New Providence cemetery? Ann Beard: Mm-hmm. Because he was a preacher there, her husband. Margaret Skovira: Her husband, yes. We should have more about Mary Moore Brown. And you thought Marie Coleman might be able to tell us something about her? Ann Beard: Well, I can show you the book. Do you have it? Margaret Skovira: I've seen it at the Historical Society. Ann Beard: Just a little thing. Trenton read that book, and then he did the drawing of the tombstone. He was the top project in Rockridge County. It was a tremendous big thing. I had to take the pickup truck, take him around to the different schools and he'd talk about it. He was in the seventh grade. Margaret Skovira: And he told about her? Ann Beard: Told about her, the whole-- Margaret Skovira: And what happened to her. Ann Beard: What happened to her. And then he ended up with the tombstone. Margaret Skovira: And Mary Moore Brown was the wife of -- Ann Beard: Minister. Margaret Skovira: Minister at New Providence, and she had-- her story involves being abducted by the Indians in the 18th century. Ann Beard: And raised by the Indians. Margaret Skovira: And raised by the Indians. Ann Beard: And Robbie, my other son, they always called him in school, the "Civil War Nut." He read everything, still does, about the Civil War, he could tell you, and can still tell you. He's got a good memory. All the generals, where they fought, who won each battle, all that. But that was his thing in school, was the Civil War. Margaret Skovira: Were there any Civil War sites around here that he went to? Ann Beard: Well we took him to Fredericksburg, into Maryland. Took him to every battlefield around here, sometimes spent the night. It was very boring for me, because I didn’t like to read all that stuff. But you couldn't skip any of it. [laughs] We took him to Charlottesville, Monticello and all of them. To get the history. Now you can’t even teach it in school Margaret Skovira: Is that right? Ann Beard: We had Virginia history in the seventh grade. I loved it. And we went on a trip to Monticello, Michie’s Tavern and different places. We'd get brochures. Then you made a scrapbook when you got home. And now they’re not allowed to teach Virginia history. Margaret Skovira: Is that the new Standards of Learning program? Ann Beard: Mm-hmm. Margaret Skovira: Well that's a loss, isn't it. Ann Beard: Yes. Margaret Skovira: This project we're working on is Virginia history, and it's very important to record it while we remember it. Ann Beard: While we remember it, because our generation don’t know a thing about Brownsburg. I gave a cookbook-- I had four nieces on Donnie's side that lived – two of them lived in Staunton. I gave them a cookbook, and they couldn't believe the history that was in that cookbook. They didn't know anything about it. Margaret Skovira: It's a great source of both recipes and history. Ann Beard: And history. It sure is. Margaret Skovira: That's very good. Once again, thank you. Ann Beard: I've enjoyed talking to you. Margaret Skovira: Thank you. Ann Swisher Beard Index B Bare, Claude · 17 Beard, Ann Basketball Team · 7 Birth · 2 Career with Extension Service · 5, 33 Dunsmore Business College · 9 Farming Accident · 22 High School Graduation · 7 Marriage · 13 New Providence Church · 12, 31 Parents · 2 Beard, Donald · 9, 13 Employment · 5 Beard, Robbie · 26 Beard, Trenton · 26 Beard, Winifred · 34 Bethesda Presbyterian Church · 12 Blackwell, Arthur · 28 Brown, Mary Moore Captive of Abb's Valley · 36 Brownsburg Barber Shop · 24 Blacksmith Shop · 22 Cannery · 19 Carwell's Garage · 22 Colored School · 20 Funeral Home · 18 Great Depression · 30 Gypsies · 30 Murders · 27 Pool Room · 24 Race Relations · 20 Saturday Nights · 29 School · 6, 25 Shoe Repair Shop · 22 Stores · 18, 23 Telephone Office · 11, 24 Burger, Dan · 25 C Carwell, Pete · 22 F Farming · 4 Butchering · 16 Sheep Shearing · 10 Fitzgerald, Bert · 17 Franklin, Dan · 21 H Heath, Jo Swisher · 2 Hogshead, Ruth Patterson · 19 Huffman’s Store · 23 M Martin, Sidney · 21 Martin, W.L. "Bud" · 21 Matheny, Harve · 22 McCorkle, Anne Buchanan · 6 McElwee Chapel · 12 N New Providence Chrysanthemum Show · 31 P Potter, Walter · 22 S Sandridge, Harold · 7 Supinger, Ocie · 11 Swisher, Eartha Wade · 2 Swisher, Ethel · 34 Swisher, George Washington · 4 Swisher, Henry · 15 Swisher, John · 2, 14, 26 Swisher, John Henry · 2, 9 Swisher, Lewis · 15 Swisher, Minnie Bell Lucas · 4 Swope’s Store · 23 T Taylor, Dr. · 23 Tillery, Emily Swisher · 2 Trimmer, Ocie · 8 W Wade, Harrison Love · 3, 4 Wade, John · 28 Wade, Virginia Catherine Swisher · 4 Wade, Virginia Swisher · 3 Wade's Mill · 5 Whipple, Mollie Sue · 25 Whitesell, John Layton · 18 Whitesell, Miley L. · 21 Whitesell's Store · 23 Williams, Dr. Joe · 22 World War II · 15